SOG/GOG

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Shedman
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by Shedman »

No, that's not what I'm saying.

It's a team effort and it takes contributions from everyone.

But you and green weenie can beating the dead horse."

It takes a team effort every year, but this year they acquired some major league ballplayers and voila, we are winning.
Black & Gold
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by Black & Gold »

The team is 16-7 without its second best player the majority of the season. They are winning with very good starting pitching, elite bullpen work, good defense and a combination of patience/power at the plate. Those things are reliable and tend to be there every game.

If the team can win 55% of its games before Cruz returns in August, and if Endy joins the team and is as good as he seems to be, and if Ortiz continues to be a dominant starting pitcher one level higher, then the Pirates are going to be a playoff team. Not a contender - a playoff team.
GreenWeenie
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by GreenWeenie »

I dont normally shoot at members, but if someone goes at me- especially unprovoked, I will defend myself. I think that it's Stoney who's beating those horses to death.

If I listened to people here, Cutch and Santana were washed up and over the hill. Heck, Hill was over the hill. That's why it's not hard to smile.

Our young guys don't even know how to slide properly. Our young guys munch on food with balls in play. Our young guys take cell phones to the field. We have good veteran guys who help us to win.
.
2023's no different than 2013 was. We won when we added veteran talent. Playing LMGs and suspects led to years of spinning wheels, while a certain someone convinces the loyal masses to keep waiting. Stoney is one of thousands who go for that.

Had we not added veteran talent, we'd be as bad as last season.

Doesn't matter. We're winning. That's what matters.
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bucco boy
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by bucco boy »

GreenWeenie wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:27 am I dont normally shoot at members, but if someone goes at me- especially unprovoked, I will defend myself. I think that it's Stoney who's beating those horses to death.

If I listened to people here, Cutch and Santana were washed up and over the hill. Heck, Hill was over the hill. That's why it's not hard to smile.

Our young guys don't even know how to slide properly. Our young guys munch on food with balls in play. Our young guys take cell phones to the field. We have good veteran guys who help us to win.
.
2023's no different than 2013 was. We won when we added veteran talent. Playing LMGs and suspects led to years of spinning wheels, while a certain someone convinces the loyal masses to keep waiting. Stoney is one of thousands who go for that.

Had we not added veteran talent, we'd be as bad as last season.

Doesn't matter. We're winning. That's what matters.
Funny. So you knew we added veteran talent and that would make a difference, but you predicted 64 wins.

And yes those players help and have been great, but the rebuilding with younger guys are just as big a part of this. And that was Ben's plan that you have bitched about since you came on this board along with Nutting spending money.
The Bucs Are Going All The Way, All The Way, All The Way
GreenWeenie
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by GreenWeenie »

Nice parse.

I explained my reasons. So, there's the need to repeat. It's no different from what I wrote then:

1. I felt that, with the additions, the team would improve.

2. The reasons that I didn't go higher were- that the team's performance I expected to improve, but I also expected the division's other clubs to improve, too. The Cubs added talent. The Brew Crew have a leg up because I think that their pitching is very good overall. I felt that the Reds pitching is also fairly good. The only thing that- at this stage of the season, mind you- where I haven't been as accurate on is that I didn't think that the Cardinals would drop off at the current rate. I don't think that I'm the only person who's been off on them.

3. I felt that the Pirates would play better than last year (all season long, not just the first percentage of them)- by playing tighter games. So far, we haven't lost games by over 20 runs, so I've been correct so far.

So, we've reached the stage where people who were pissed off with picking up veterans who they thought were over the hill and wanted Cherington to "play the kids" are changing their tune and saying that "everybody's kicking in."

There can't be any questions that the vets have made a significant difference between last year's 100-loss club and the early stages of this season's success. But, go on.

I've made very few comments re payroll this past off-season. I'm beyond that. I've accepted the situation for what it's been. I admit that I've been upset about the over-reliance of players who aren't up to MLB level. We didn't lose that many games by accident.

I'll add:

4. Part of my low prediction was based on my expectation that one or both of Bednar and Reynolds will be dealt before season's end. Losing that level of player for inexperienced ones is higher risk. I have no idea whether that's less likely now and neither does anyone else. Ben likes his suspects, as we all should understand by now, and both should be very attractive to other clubs. I hope that they're still attractive enough for the Pirates to keep them, of course. A lot depends on the next few months. I have a gut feeling that Reynolds would like to move on based on some of the decisions he and his reps have made, such as adding an opt-out, then, later a no trade clause. He knows that the club will never agree to them. So, I haven't assumed that the situation is one-sided.
Dan_Stonerook
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

GreenWeenie wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:56 pm Nice parse.

I explained my reasons. So, there's the need to repeat. It's no different from what I wrote then:

1. I felt that, with the additions, the team would improve.

2. The reasons that I didn't go higher were- that the team's performance I expected to improve, but I also expected the division's other clubs to improve, too. The Cubs added talent. The Brew Crew have a leg up because I think that their pitching is very good overall. I felt that the Reds pitching is also fairly good. The only thing that- at this stage of the season, mind you- where I haven't been as accurate on is that I didn't think that the Cardinals would drop off at the current rate. I don't think that I'm the only person who's been off on them.

3. I felt that the Pirates would play better than last year (all season long, not just the first percentage of them)- by playing tighter games. So far, we haven't lost games by over 20 runs, so I've been correct so far.

So, we've reached the stage where people who were pissed off with picking up veterans who they thought were over the hill and wanted Cherington to "play the kids" are changing their tune and saying that "everybody's kicking in."

There can't be any questions that the vets have made a significant difference between last year's 100-loss club and the early stages of this season's success. But, go on.

I've made very few comments re payroll this past off-season. I'm beyond that. I've accepted the situation for what it's been. I admit that I've been upset about the over-reliance of players who aren't up to MLB level. We didn't lose that many games by accident.

I'll add:

4. Part of my low prediction was based on my expectation that one or both of Bednar and Reynolds will be dealt before season's end. Losing that level of player for inexperienced ones is higher risk. I have no idea whether that's less likely now and neither does anyone else. Ben likes his suspects, as we all should understand by now, and both should be very attractive to other clubs. I hope that they're still attractive enough for the Pirates to keep them, of course. A lot depends on the next few months. I have a gut feeling that Reynolds would like to move on based on some of the decisions he and his reps have made, such as adding an opt-out, then, later a no trade clause. He knows that the club will never agree to them. So, I haven't assumed that the situation is one-sided.
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bucco boy
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by bucco boy »

I honestly think you would rather be right then the Pirates win. This must be killing you.

I don't doubt you are Pirate fan,and I am not sure what has made you so bitter, but the bottom line is that response you wrote is nothing reflective of anything you said this offseason. You predicted 64 wins. Same old Pirates.

I feel bad for you.
The Bucs Are Going All The Way, All The Way, All The Way
GreenWeenie
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by GreenWeenie »

If we go by your standards and your prediction of 75 wins, then this winning stretch has got to be killing you, too. Just not as quickly. ;)

I don't mind losing the prediction poll. It's not as if Shed's handing the winner the keys to a brand new car.

You can't be more incorrect, and there are members on this board with whom I speak on a regular basis who would verify that if they chose to. Members is plural; not only one. I won't get into any pissing match, so there's no need for them to.

I've written more than once that, while I wasn't very hopeful going into this season (mainly because of my question of deadline trades and SP), that I hoped that I was proven wrong like I was in 2013. I was far from alone in my pessimistic outlook going into that season, too.

Regardless, think what you want. You're going to, anyway. You're not even close to right in your judgement of me. I'm as happy as can be that the Pirates are doing this well. We're no longer the pushovers that we've been far too many times. Even when we lose, opponents need to work a lot harder to do it.

I'm glad that Shelton was given an extension. The players seem to be responding well to him. Regardless of your outlook, I hope that it continues.
Last edited by GreenWeenie on Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bucco boy
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by bucco boy »

I am not posting an 'I told you so' on the board.

That being said, I think we have the same goals and that's for the Pirates being good again. You are just on the pessimistic side which I understand after this franchise has struggled for the most part for the last 25 years. I look at the glass half full and trust Cherington to get this done. Doesn't mean he won't make mistakes but he was hired 2019 so it is not surprising to me that this is the year we are seeing more progress with his plan.
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val
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by val »

bucco boy wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:53 pm I am not posting an 'I told you so' on the board.

That being said, I think we have the same goals and that's for the Pirates being good again. You are just on the pessimistic side which I understand after this franchise has struggled for the most part for the last 25 years. I look at the glass half full and trust Cherington to get this done. Doesn't mean he won't make mistakes but he was hired 2019 so it is not surprising to me that this is the year we are seeing more progress with his plan.
I will be forever scarred by 22 losing seasons in a row. I thought we were going to lose Reynolds and I thought not extending Cruz was a franchise-altering kind of mistake. I loved the pickup of Cutch -- of course I never wanted us to let him go in the first place -- but didn't expect him to be this good (small sample size notwithstanding.) I am immune to pre-season hypes and hopes (though I did now that Malcolm Brogdon was going to be a hit for the Celtics) so all I really base my pre-season hopes on are last season's records.

I will be very happy to have my pre-season expectations dashed!
GreenWeenie
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by GreenWeenie »

bucco boy wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:53 pm I am not posting an 'I told you so' on the board.

That being said, I think we have the same goals and that's for the Pirates being good again. You are just on the pessimistic side which I understand after this franchise has struggled for the most part for the last 25 years. I look at the glass half full and trust Cherington to get this done. Doesn't mean he won't make mistakes but he was hired 2019 so it is not surprising to me that this is the year we are seeing more progress with his plan.
[/quote

I prefer to say that I'm more conservative/guarded.

I'm a member of more than one board. I went to more detail in the others. The offense has never concerned me this year. I felt that adding Cutch and Guitar Man would help (enough to see.) I never thought that either was done by any means.

Pitching concerned me a lot. It just did.

I've never been high on Keller. Everyone knows that. I thought that he lacks that bulldog mentality. What the heck do I know?

I liked Brubaker even less. I think he's not that good. Then, he gets hurt and I feel badly for him.

I have (still have) a bad feeling about Reynolds getting dealt....but, I do NOT blame BOB or Ben for that. Some big spending team is going to make us an offer that every GM would take. I have that funny feeling that Reynolds may want to play somewhere else. Otherwise, why the additional requests?

Bednar, too. He wants to stay, but there's a team out there who will give a lot for him.

The good news is that we have depth coming up. We can play them. We can deal them. Ben has options.


Tighter division. Balanced schedule. Losing two of our best players at the deadline all led to my tighter prediction. It looks to be way too tight.

This is a case where I don't mind being wrong. I think that my thought process was good, though. Most experts had us being there with tge Reds or a little better. They have pitching. I'm as wrong as a lot of people.

Even after losing Cruz, the team is saying, "Up yours, GW!" Up mine is right. ;)
statscbl
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by statscbl »

Let's Go Bucs! Best record in the National League!!!!!
GreenWeenie
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by GreenWeenie »

As mentioned in The Extension Thread, this, my fellow online Pirates fans friends, is not the year for me to be making predictions. ;)

Reminds me of 1969.

Orioles

Ali

Colts

Those were my picks. At the age of 11.

Do you have any idea how many lawns I needed to cut to make sure that Big Weenie never found out how much money I lost?
Shedman
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by Shedman »

"So, we've reached the stage where people who were pissed off with picking up veterans who they thought were over the hill and wanted Cherington to "play the kids" are changing their tune and saying that "everybody's kicking in."
_________
It truly is amazing how fast the tunes are changing. The steady drumbeat that we have heard is "play the kids", and this suspect or that suspect, and we are building a long term sustainable championship team. Now all the vaunted prospects are making small or marginal contributions and guys like McCutchen, Santana, Rich Hill, and Vince Velasguez are undeniable winning ball games for us and the tune changes to "everybody's kicking in".
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bucco boy
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Re: SOG/GOG

Post by bucco boy »

Shedman wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:56 pm "So, we've reached the stage where people who were pissed off with picking up veterans who they thought were over the hill and wanted Cherington to "play the kids" are changing their tune and saying that "everybody's kicking in."
_________
It truly is amazing how fast the tunes are changing. The steady drumbeat that we have heard is "play the kids", and this suspect or that suspect, and we are building a long term sustainable championship team. Now all the vaunted prospects are making small or marginal contributions and guys like McCutchen, Santana, Rich Hill, and Vince Velasguez are undeniable winning ball games for us and the tune changes to "everybody's kicking in".
Who?
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