Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Talk Pittsburgh Pirates baseball with fans from around the world. Discuss major league and minor league baseball as well.
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Shedman
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:08 pm

Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Shedman »

The rules are the same as last Off Season. We will score MAJOR LEAGUE acquisitions by each team from 1-5. Arbitration deals do not count unless they include a FA year(s). I hope I can count on WWD to give us his score too.

This year, I hope that Cherington begins to do his job as GM and acquire some major league ballplayers. He should start immediately and start making phone calls this afternoon. No more excuses and alibis for not signing players like he has used in the past. Here is a list of excuses and alibis used in the past.

1. He is an aging veteran on the decline.
2. He is too injury prone.
3. Acquiring him would bring us no closer to a championship.
4. He would never sign to play in Pittsburgh.
5. He would be a clubhouse cancer.
6. Acquiring him would upset the team chemistry.
7. Signing him would lose financial flexibility for a 1 year player.
8.We already have players just as good as him.
9. We are not the Red Sox or Yankees and they would outbid us.
10.He would block this LMG or that LMG from development.

Don't kick the can down the road and tell us how much talent you have added to the system. Improve this team for 2023 right now. Other small market teams have done it, so you can do it too.
statscbl
Posts: 484
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:31 am

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by statscbl »

I am interested to see if posters would be interested in trying to get any former Pirates back as I think they all could be free agents this off-season. Which ones would you try to re-sign?

!B Josh Bell
2B Adam Frazier
OF Corey Dickerson
OF Ben Gamel
DH Andrew McCutchen
DH Daniel Vogelbach
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Jameson Taillon
SP Jose Quintana
SP Jordan Lyles
SP Trevor Williams
SP Chris Archer
SP Chad Kuhl
RP Keona Kela
NDBuc28
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:22 pm

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by NDBuc28 »

statscbl wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:46 am I am interested to see if posters would be interested in trying to get any former Pirates back as I think they all could be free agents this off-season. Which ones would you try to re-sign?

!B Josh Bell
2B Adam Frazier
OF Corey Dickerson
OF Ben Gamel
DH Andrew McCutchen
DH Daniel Vogelbach
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Jameson Taillon
SP Jose Quintana
SP Jordan Lyles
SP Trevor Williams
SP Chris Archer
SP Chad Kuhl
RP Keona Kela
Josh Harrison will also be a FA.

I would take McCutchen and hope a return to Pittsburgh rejuvenates him.

Taillon and Quintana I would like to see back. Very doubtful Taillon would be in our price range, Quintana may have played himself out of our price range as well.

Needs: catcher, left handed 1B, OF (at least one if not 2), SP, upgrade relief pitching.

Cherington will have his hands full this off-season.
Dan_Stonerook
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:25 pm
Location: Parts Unknown, PA

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

statscbl wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:46 am I am interested to see if posters would be interested in trying to get any former Pirates back as I think they all could be free agents this off-season. Which ones would you try to re-sign?

!B Josh Bell
2B Adam Frazier
OF Corey Dickerson
OF Ben Gamel
DH Andrew McCutchen
DH Daniel Vogelbach
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Jameson Taillon
SP Jose Quintana
SP Jordan Lyles
SP Trevor Williams
SP Chris Archer
SP Chad Kuhl
RP Keona Kela
No. Except for Gamel.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:16 am

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by GreenWeenie »

Given that we finished with 100 losses in the worst division in the business, I would say that there are very few areas where I wouldn't seek to improve the roster.

My "future" is the 2023 season. My team is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Someone else can worry about whether some minor league club does anything.

Cherington's been given leeway based on what?- Two winning seasons in his career, with one being a world championship from 100 years ago with a blank check to work with. His seat deserves to be at least "warm." He has weakened the roster from the one he inherited, and enough time has gone by that he should be expected to equal it- at the minimum. That wasn't the highest of bars. Time is never a friend. It's the enemy.

The Cardinals will lose some key personnel and known Pirates Killers. That can't be our only way of improving our results.

While I don't expect anything close to a first place finish in 2023, I expect improvement that the naked eye can see. The Hodge Podge of Bryan Reynolds And Not Much More must be a thing of the past.

On that list, I'd accept just about all, given what we saw this past season. Josh Bell and Tyler Anderson would be close to the top of the list. I'm not much of a sentimentalist, but if Andrew McCutchen would look beyond our past dismissal of his wanting to stay with the Pirates, I'd take him, too.

These wouldn't be my primary targets. I'm only answering the question about this specific list. They would improve our inadequate roster.

We aren't in much position to turn away guys who get on base and generate runs. Tyler Anderson is a guy teams can count on.

Most of the guys on that list, the Pirates are able to afford. It's not a matter of money.

If I didn't see improvement that met my minimum expectation, I'd be doing what teams like Detroit Tigers and Kansas City Royals have done, to name two. But, that's just me.
BucFanInPhillyLand
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:55 am

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by BucFanInPhillyLand »

statscbl wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:46 am
!B Josh Bell
2B Adam Frazier
OF Corey Dickerson
OF Ben Gamel
DH Andrew McCutchen
DH Daniel Vogelbach
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Jameson Taillon
SP Jose Quintana
SP Jordan Lyles
SP Trevor Williams
SP Chris Archer
SP Chad Kuhl
RP Keona Kela
I know it usually sounds cliche when you talk about certain players providing veteran presence on a team, but that might serve to be somewhat important in the next several years. This is going to be a very young ball club. As far as position players, a veteran catcher would be nice as they start filtering in the young catchers from the minors. Mostly I wouldn't mind seeing some of the pitchers from this list to help out in the rotation. Adding someone like Taillon, Anderson, or Quintana would solidify what already looks to be a pretty darn good rotation.

I'm not in favor of re-signing Gamel. He no longer serves the purpose on this team that he did when he got here. McCutchen would be a suitable replacement.
val
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:45 pm

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by val »

I'm all for re-signing Cutch.

Also, don't know where else to post this, but the White Sox finished the year at 81 - 81. Which is perfectly appropriate because the team is an even .500 since late in the 1906 season: 9032 - 9032.
NDBuc28
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:22 pm

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by NDBuc28 »

val wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:42 pm I'm all for re-signing Cutch.

Also, don't know where else to post this, but the White Sox finished the year at 81 - 81. Which is perfectly appropriate because the team is an even .500 since late in the 1906 season: 9032 - 9032.
Thanks for posting this

I love this kind of stuff
Dan_Stonerook
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:25 pm
Location: Parts Unknown, PA

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

val wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:42 pm I'm all for re-signing Cutch.

Also, don't know where else to post this, but the White Sox finished the year at 81 - 81. Which is perfectly appropriate because the team is an even .500 since late in the 1906 season: 9032 - 9032.
I just don't see anything Cutch could bring to the team besides the nostalgic presence of being the old guy from the old days.

He was not good in 2022. I don't think he is a good mentor. I can see him complaining about playing time.

Cutch turned into Roger Dorn. He cared more about himself than playing baseball. He went from playing ball to a ballplayer.

I lost a lot of respect from him on the winter caravan tour in 2016, he was giving an attitude to some of the fans when they came to my area. Then there was the whole "This is my spot" thing in CF when he was moved back after the Marte suspension, and the calling out of the PNC Park score keeper about the errors he was charged.

Time to move on from the nostalgia.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:16 am

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by GreenWeenie »

Funny how the "attiude" issue coincided with extension time. The guy's biggest sin was that he wanted paid.
Dan_Stonerook
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:25 pm
Location: Parts Unknown, PA

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

GreenWeenie wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:20 pm Funny how the "attiude" issue coincided with extension time. The guy's biggest sin was that he wanted paid.
No one forced him to sign that extension.

The attitude also all of the sudden appeared when his stats and fielding started to decline too.
Shedman
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:08 pm

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Shedman »

I think signing Cutch would be a good move in the right direction. What our team needs desperately are major league ballplayers and Cutch is one of them. I would give Cherington a major attaboy if he were able to sign Cutch.
Dan_Stonerook
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:25 pm
Location: Parts Unknown, PA

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

Shedman wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:53 pm I think signing Cutch would be a good move in the right direction. What our team needs desperately are major league ballplayers and Cutch is one of them. I would give Cherington a major attaboy if he were able to sign Cutch.
A 36 year old outfielder who lost his power, his on base ability, and defense. He had a 99 ops+. Barely league average.
Gamel gives you similar production and is younger and can play all three OF spots and 1st base.
GreenWeenie
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:16 am

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by GreenWeenie »

Dan_Stonerook wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:01 pm
GreenWeenie wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:20 pm Funny how the "attiude" issue coincided with extension time. The guy's biggest sin was that he wanted paid.
No one forced him to sign that extension.

The attitude also all of the sudden appeared when his stats and fielding started to decline too.

I was referring to the negotiation period that they didn't agree on; the one that led to him leaving the team.
Shedman
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:08 pm

Re: Off Season 2022-2023 thread

Post by Shedman »

#5 - He would be a clubhouse cancer.
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