Frazier to padres

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Va. Pirate
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Frazier to padres

Post by Va. Pirate »

ESPN reported Frazier traded to Padres bucs get 3 players in trade
Rellimie
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Rellimie »

Reported Players:

- Tucupita Marcano
- Jack Suwinski
- Michell Miliano

Pirates also giving the Padres cash.

Source: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/ ... k#comments
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bucco boy
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by bucco boy »

Yuck! They got the Padres No. 5 prospect - an infielder - and guys who aren't even ranked. Not sure what happened here. Of course, BC could end up looking like a genius, but I would have kept Frazier rather than made that trade.
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bucco boy
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by bucco boy »

The Bucs Are Going All The Way, All The Way, All The Way
Rellimie
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Rellimie »

bucco boy wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:57 pm Yuck! They got the Padres No. 5 prospect - an infielder - and guys who aren't even ranked. Not sure what happened here. Of course, BC could end up looking like a genius, but I would have kept Frazier rather than made that trade.
That’s about what I expected for Frazier.
statscbl
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by statscbl »

If the Pirates focus is 2024 and beyond , I like the trade. Even though Frazier is tearing it up now, I think Marcano might have a better upside than a 32 year old expensive Frazier in 3 years. Cherington has been pretty consistent in trading for high risk guys with big upside. I like that Marcano is only 21 and hit .366 in almost 200 at bats in low minors 2 seasons ago. I like that 22 year old Suwinski has 15 homers in 216 at bats to go along with a .398 obp. If 21 year old Millano gains control, he could be a future closer. In 30 innings he has 59 strike outs and batters are only hitting .160 off of him.

It is also a great trade for the Padres who are trying to win right now. Let's face it though. The Pirates tried to trade Frazier last year(when he hit .233), but couldn't get much. That might have been a smart move by Cherington to hold onto him then and trade him now. I hope Frazier does well. He is a class act and represented the Pirates well.
BucFanInPhillyLand
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by BucFanInPhillyLand »

On a personal level, I have always loved Frazier. I am one of the few that wasn't surprised that he was putting together the kind of year he was. I think this year will continue to be more the normal year for him going forward for the next 3 -5 years.

I just don't agree with the philosophy of trading proven players for prospects UNTIL you have another player that is ready to step into, and replace the traded player. What I was hoping for was that they would try to extend Frazier's contract for a few more years, and then by the end of that contract you might have someone like Nick Gonzalez ready to step in and take Frazier's place. I guess it all boils down to whether you believe in Frazier or not. If you think that this year is a peak year for him, then maybe the trade was the right thing to do. What you're getting in return is always an unknown until a few years down the road.
Rellimie
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Rellimie »

BucFanInPhillyLand wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:55 pm On a personal level, I have always loved Frazier. I am one of the few that wasn't surprised that he was putting together the kind of year he was. I think this year will continue to be more the normal year for him going forward for the next 3 -5 years.

I just don't agree with the philosophy of trading proven players for prospects UNTIL you have another player that is ready to step into, and replace the traded player. What I was hoping for was that they would try to extend Frazier's contract for a few more years, and then by the end of that contract you might have someone like Nick Gonzalez ready to step in and take Frazier's place. I guess it all boils down to whether you believe in Frazier or not. If you think that this year is a peak year for him, then maybe the trade was the right thing to do. What you're getting in return is always an unknown until a few years down the road.
If the Pirates were in the Rays situation where they were looking to contend every year then yes, waiting to trade someone until the replacement is ready is the way to go. The Pirates though need to trade these vets while they are at their highest value. I am a huge Frazier fan but let's not forget he is a light hitting utility man that is having what will probably be the best year of his career. Regardless of Frazier's gold glove, he isn't bringing a lot to the table in defense. He isn't costing anyone runs but he isn't saving any either.

He's about to be 30 so extending him shouldn't' even be a consideration.

What they got in return looks to be a 21 year old version of Frazier that at worst will probably be as good as Frazier down the road, and a couple of lottery tickets that are having pretty good seasons in the minors.
statscbl
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by statscbl »

BucFanInPhillyLand wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:55 pm On a personal level, I have always loved Frazier. I am one of the few that wasn't surprised that he was putting together the kind of year he was. I think this year will continue to be more the normal year for him going forward for the next 3 -5 years.

I just don't agree with the philosophy of trading proven players for prospects UNTIL you have another player that is ready to step into, and replace the traded player. What I was hoping for was that they would try to extend Frazier's contract for a few more years, and then by the end of that contract you might have someone like Nick Gonzalez ready to step in and take Frazier's place. I guess it all boils down to whether you believe in Frazier or not. If you think that this year is a peak year for him, then maybe the trade was the right thing to do. What you're getting in return is always an unknown until a few years down the road.
I love the post and it all makes sense, especially why you like Frazier. It is difficult for a team to build a fan base if they keep trading away our favorite players. Unfortunately, I am thinking part of the Pirates plan is to be bad for a while on the major league level so they can keep getting draft picks and building the farm system. Signing guys like Frazier, Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would help us win more, but just get us stuck in the middle. I will always be a Frazier fan and maybe we can get him back again when we are good.
Paratus
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Paratus »

Ok, so I am new here and actually new to all the blogs. I have had a live and let live attitude w the Pirates (sort of), but I watch almost every game.
I am now though, at the point of being angry, because the powers that be have hit an all time low w/ this trade.

I, like the rest of you have been waiting a long time for this team to put a contender in place, but you don't do it by trading away serious top talent in exchange for non proven hope.

I disagree we don't have enough talent right now to win our division. I know we are so far out of first place that it seems impossible to catch up, but it did take only half the season to get here. Ok, maybe we don't catch up. What do we honestly need though. Stronger pitching? Agreed. However, our starting pitching and the pen are filled with good young talent that we hope will be better. Lets get rid of the arms that are not getting it done, for ones that will.

If we had any hope of making any type of come back this year, even a so so year, this trade makes is seriously difficult.

How many years do we need to be bad to get good picks in the draft to mount a really good team?

This is just bad leadership.
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bucco boy
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by bucco boy »

Welcome aboard!

Only thing I will say is this team is nowhere close to contending. As far as being fed up, Cherington just took over two years ago. Unfortunately, he doesn't have any fairy dust. You can grovel all you want about the past but the new management will need some time to get to where we all want the franchise to be.
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BucFanInPhillyLand
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by BucFanInPhillyLand »

Paratus wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:53 pm Ok, so I am new here and actually new to all the blogs. I have had a live and let live attitude w the Pirates (sort of), but I watch almost every game.
I am now though, at the point of being angry, because the powers that be have hit an all time low w/ this trade.

I, like the rest of you have been waiting a long time for this team to put a contender in place, but you don't do it by trading away serious top talent in exchange for non proven hope.

I disagree we don't have enough talent right now to win our division. I know we are so far out of first place that it seems impossible to catch up, but it did take only half the season to get here. Ok, maybe we don't catch up. What do we honestly need though. Stronger pitching? Agreed. However, our starting pitching and the pen are filled with good young talent that we hope will be better. Lets get rid of the arms that are not getting it done, for ones that will.

If we had any hope of making any type of come back this year, even a so so year, this trade makes is seriously difficult.

How many years do we need to be bad to get good picks in the draft to mount a really good team?

This is just bad leadership.
I know it seems preposterous to hear someone say they have the talent to win the division right now. Well, I'm not going to go that far, BUT this team wasn't as far away as everyone seems to think. First off, this team was managed to lose quite a few games this year. Winning just wasn't a priority when lineups were made, or on field decisions were made. How many times this year did the Pirates win the first two games of a series, and with a chance to sweep, either Frazier, Reynolds or Hayes was rested? How many times were starting pitchers, that were having very good starts, lifted with under 75 pitches and then handed over to a reliever that couldn't get anyone out?

Think about this....if Polanco would have just produced the way fans kept hoping for, a lineup of Frazier, Hayes, Reynolds, Nogowski, Polanco and Stallings is a pretty good start. There are some other possibilities on the team right now that might surprise like Difo and Castro is also available.

The pitching looks worse than they are because of the way the staff was managed. This staff was pitching pretty well for the first month, and then suddenly it seems that Shelton started managing them much differently. Almost as if he wanted the team to lose.

Like I said, they weren't a division winning team, but they were certainly shouldn't have been a 100 loss team. If they would have managed this team with a priority on winning, they could have easily fell in around .500.
BucFanInPhillyLand
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by BucFanInPhillyLand »

statscbl wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm

I love the post and it all makes sense, especially why you like Frazier. It is difficult for a team to build a fan base if they keep trading away our favorite players. Unfortunately, I am thinking part of the Pirates plan is to be bad for a while on the major league level so they can keep getting draft picks and building the farm system. Signing guys like Frazier, Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would help us win more, but just get us stuck in the middle. I will always be a Frazier fan and maybe we can get him back again when we are good.
I agree. I absolutely think they plan on being bad for a few more years. I just happen to think they didn't have to be. I was fine with trading Bell because I thought he was overrated and would bring back more than he was worth. I could say the same about Musgrove. Taillon might have been someone to keep, but with his pervious health issues, I was ok with moving him too. I wasn't on board with trading Frazier. I thought he could have brought veteran leadership along with very solid game play to a young team in 2,3 or 4 years. There's no way, as a fan, to know about the players that are coming to the Pirates in the Frazier deal. That's when you just have to have faith that BC knows what he is doing when evaluating talent. Fingers crossed that these guys become productive major leaguers.
Rellimie
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Rellimie »

BucFanInPhillyLand wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:20 am
statscbl wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm

I love the post and it all makes sense, especially why you like Frazier. It is difficult for a team to build a fan base if they keep trading away our favorite players. Unfortunately, I am thinking part of the Pirates plan is to be bad for a while on the major league level so they can keep getting draft picks and building the farm system. Signing guys like Frazier, Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would help us win more, but just get us stuck in the middle. I will always be a Frazier fan and maybe we can get him back again when we are good.
I agree. I absolutely think they plan on being bad for a few more years. I just happen to think they didn't have to be. I was fine with trading Bell because I thought he was overrated and would bring back more than he was worth. I could say the same about Musgrove. Taillon might have been someone to keep, but with his pervious health issues, I was ok with moving him too. I wasn't on board with trading Frazier. I thought he could have brought veteran leadership along with very solid game play to a young team in 2,3 or 4 years. There's no way, as a fan, to know about the players that are coming to the Pirates in the Frazier deal. That's when you just have to have faith that BC knows what he is doing when evaluating talent. Fingers crossed that these guys become productive major leaguers.
While I fully supported trading all of the players you listed, if I was forced to keep one it would have been Musgrove.
Dan_Stonerook
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Re: Frazier to padres

Post by Dan_Stonerook »

Marcano's scouting report sure seems similar to Frazier.
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