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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:39 pm 
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val wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:
I find it amazing that with the history of the Pirates they have had very few great 1st basemen. I even went back to look thinking I had forgot someone. And there were a few names I'd forgotten but still very few All Star types.

Umm, Willie Stargell.
.


I have a hard time calling someone that played 1,300 games in the outfield a
1st baseman even if he also played 850 there.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Best first baseman we had in the last decade we dumped like garbage, Adam LaRoache.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:04 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
I have a hard time calling someone that played 1,300 games in the outfield a
1st baseman even if he also played 850 there.

I get that. Let's face it, Pops played a lot games. But, he did win a WS and his MVP playing first. He gets to be counted as a great Buc first baseman.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:25 pm 
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val wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:
I have a hard time calling someone that played 1,300 games in the outfield a
1st baseman even if he also played 850 there.

I get that. Let's face it, Pops played a lot games. But, he did win a WS and his MVP playing first. He gets to be counted as a great Buc first baseman.



Even including him, the selection of quality 1st baseman is pretty thin for a 125 yr old franchise and basically non-existent over the last 25 yrs. That is pretty remarkable considering that was usually the deepest position in baseball through the steroid era.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:10 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
Even including him, the selection of quality 1st baseman is pretty thin for a 125 yr old franchise and basically non-existent over the last 25 yrs. That is pretty remarkable considering that was usually the deepest position in baseball through the steroid era.

And that's one of the reasons we've sucked for so long. Hey, that could be a marketing solution: We sucked, but at least we were clean :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Fifth best record in baseball...

One of six teams more than 10 games over...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9

Bring on the Cubs.

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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:21 pm 
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Al Oliver, Bob Robertson....Oliver moved to the OF to allow Starg to move to 1B. Bob Robertson was a great fielding 1B with power who succumbed to bad knees.

Oh, and don't knock the Rock.... 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:36 pm 
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1B Kevin Young, aka KY, was one of our first big signings after PNC Park opened up LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:28 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Al Oliver, Bob Robertson....

Robertson was sooo good his first two years. I liked him as one of my top-5 Buccos when I was young (Clemente #1, Hebner #2, Stargell #3 in 1970-1972, Sanguillen #4 ... then Robertson and Blass).

He just seemed to disappear in 1972 and thereafter. What the heck happened?


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:18 am 
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Bob - I think that Wilmoth hit the nail on the head with what you quoted. Watching the games over the past four days left me with a really uneasy feeling. It felt like the Astros were inventing ways to hand victories to the Pirates as opposed to the Pirates going out and taking an inferior team to the woodshed . . . which is exactly what the Reds have been doing to their opponents. I'm certainly not disappointed with an 8-5 record after the All Star break but there hasn't been a ton of great baseball played by the Bucs in those 13 games.

A number of bats need to wake up and wake up fast. I'm hoping that Wrigley Field provides that wake up call.

A small part of me is secretly hoping that the Bucs are guilty of "looking ahead" a bit and that yesterday's debacle - less in the result and moreso in the style of play and approach at the bat - will help the team re-focus.

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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:41 am 
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I thought that teams commonly win two games in a row on wild pitches!

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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:45 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
I'm certainly not disappointed with an 8-5 record after the All Star break but there hasn't been a ton of great baseball played by the Bucs in those 13 games.

They were playing lights out heading into the all star break, and nobody should have expected them to continue at that level. However, as you have stated, there has been some bad baseball being played(hitting, pitching, defense) since the break. Fortunately they have played a lot of bad teams and have maintained a decent win %.

JMac needs to fix his mechanical issues.
Alvarez needs to go back in to attack mode. He is back to watching too many fastballs go by.
The team needs to get a bat to improve the Presley/McGhee/Barmes portion of the lineup. I personally hope it doesn't cost us Marte, but an upgrade seems like a must at this point if they want to stay in the hunt.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:08 pm 
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I probably would've settled for getting Kendrys Morales from the Angels for Correia to replace McGehee in the lineup. Not a huge improvement except he hits around .270 to McGehee's .230. At the very least he would've been a bench improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:23 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Al Oliver, Bob Robertson....Oliver moved to the OF to allow Starg to move to 1B. Bob Robertson was a great fielding 1B with power who succumbed to bad knees.

Oh, and don't knock the Rock.... 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


That is not entirely true. Stargell did indeed play mostly 1b in 1972, but not LF was manned mostly that year by Vic Davalillo. Oliver played mostly 1b in 1969, split time in OF and 1b fairly evenly in '70, then took over CF exclusively in '71, playing NEXT to Stargell in LF.

Stargell was actually moved to 1b to make room in LF for Richie Zisk, but as I said, it was Davalillo that ended up getting most of the playing time there in '72. (hitting .318). Then in '73, (and again in '74) after Clemente's death, Zisk ended up playing mostly RF and Stargell moved back to LF (with Oliver being the primary starter in CF).

Finally, 'in '75 with Parker's arrival in RF, Zisk was moved to left and Stargell became exclusively a 1b at the age of 35! He never played the OF again. (who needed him back in the OF, when we had Teke available to backup in LF--LOL)

One final note, Stargell was a very good LF. He had some speed for a big man, and had a great arm. Many felt it rivaled Clemente's. He actually led the league in OF assists in '66, '67, '68, and '70 (of course they were testing him since they would never test Clemente). He also was second in OF assists in '65 and '71. He was not that great a 1b, leading league in errors in '72, and usually among the league leaders.

And this boys and girls is your Bucco history lesson for today! lol

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 Post subject: Re: July 29, 2012 Pirates (58-42) at Astros (34-68)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:07 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
I probably would've settled for getting Kendrys Morales from the Angels for Correia to replace McGehee in the lineup. Not a huge improvement except he hits around .270 to McGehee's .230. At the very least he would've been a bench improvement.


Morales has 2 HR and 6 RBI in one inning tonight... I'll take that too 8-)


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