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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:49 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Willton wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Garrett Jones, off the schneid with a no out double in the second. Will A. Laroche be bunting?

I'm sure No. 9 hopes so.


Yeah, because LaRoche is so adept at doing so. Let's completely ignore WHO is at-bat when making strategic decisions. Sorry, I don't look at matters through a vaccuum. Never have, never will.


Jack isn't good either. Career 67% success on sacrifices, well below league average.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:56 pm 
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His foot beat the tag. Paused it on MLB.TV and it was a good call by the ump. I disagree with you about the conclusion of bad baserunning. Tatis' throw was very high and Wright had to climb the ladder to catch it and try to make a diving tag at third. By running, Vasquez forced Wright to make a decision and, if cut off, it guaranteed another run - even if there was a third out. I actually thought that it was pretty heads-up baserunning on his part. Just my opinion though.


Disagree. (respectfully of course) Go back and watch again if you can. Wright swipes his knee before the foot gets there. It is possible he may have missed, but it looks like he grazed him. Never go to 3rd with 2 outs if it is gonna be close, and that was way too close. I take my chances that Diaz would score and not risk the out. Sometimes you come out smelling like a rose even when making a bad play. Like Freddy scoring from 2nd on the wild pitch against the Cubs the other night.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:01 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
Jack isn't good either. Career 67% success on sacrifices, well below league average.


What is league average? For my education, where can I access these numbers?

Again, I look at the situation . . . Jack will get a bunt down. McCutchen on second base, serious wheels. Anything on the ground and McCutchen is on third. Pirates have absolutely struggled to score runs lately. One of their better hitters (Sanchez) is on the bench. Jones - who has not hit before today - is in the line-up. An early run could be a shot of confidence not just for the offense but for Maholm as well.

But, hey, again . . . its just me . . . I tend to focus on the individual situation rather than what some table of success rates is over an 8 year career.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Quote:
His foot beat the tag. Paused it on MLB.TV and it was a good call by the ump. I disagree with you about the conclusion of bad baserunning. Tatis' throw was very high and Wright had to climb the ladder to catch it and try to make a diving tag at third. By running, Vasquez forced Wright to make a decision and, if cut off, it guaranteed another run - even if there was a third out. I actually thought that it was pretty heads-up baserunning on his part. Just my opinion though.


Disagree. (respectfully of course) Go back and watch again if you can. Wright swipes his knee before the foot gets there. It is possible he may have missed, but it looks like he grazed him. Never go to 3rd with 2 outs if it is gonna be close, and that was way too close. I take my chances that Diaz would score and not risk the out. Sometimes you come out smelling like a rose even when making a bad play. Like Freddy scoring from 2nd on the wild pitch against the Cubs the other night.


I've got it freeze framed right now. If Wright's tag in on Vaquez's knee (and I think it is - I don't think he missed the tag), Vasquez's toe is touching third base.

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No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:06 pm 
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I froze it, too and I thought it looked like at the point Wright may have first made contact, Vasquez wasn't to the bag. But, whatever... my premise is still the same- too close of a play to go.

Oh my gosh, an Elmer Dessens sighting. :shock: Didn't know he was still in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:10 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Willton wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Garrett Jones, off the schneid with a no out double in the second. Will A. Laroche be bunting?

I'm sure No. 9 hopes so.


Yeah, because LaRoche is so adept at doing so. Let's completely ignore WHO is at-bat when making strategic decisions. Sorry, I don't look at matters through a vaccuum. Never have, never will.

Fine, perhaps we should also look at the inning in which a bunt is called. When would it ever be a good idea to limit your ability to score multiple runs IN THE FIRST INNING? Especially against an awful pitcher like Tim Redding?

This is not the Deadball Era anymore, 9. One-run strategies should be left for times when one-run makes a huge difference. The first inning is not that time.

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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm 
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When do we pull Maholm????????


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Fine, perhaps we should also look at the inning in which a bunt is called. When would it ever be a good idea to limit your ability to score multiple runs IN THE FIRST INNING? Especially against an awful pitcher like Tim Redding?

This is not the Deadball Era anymore, 9. One-run strategies should be left for times when one-run makes a huge difference. The first inning is not that time.


And this is the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates.
Tim Redding? Awful pitcher? You really want to make an argument about the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates' performance against awful pitchers? With Wilson hitting second, Vasquez in the lineup, Sanchez on the bench and Garrett Jones in the lineup? I just bet that you were predicting that this lineup was going to put up 5 runs in the first four innings.
There is a psychological component to a game. Getting ahead, scoring the first run. For a team that has struggled to score recently with one of its better hitters on the bench . . . boost of confidence. And, there are 8 more innings in which you can score.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
When do we pull Maholm????????


Ugly.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:33 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Willton wrote:
Fine, perhaps we should also look at the inning in which a bunt is called. When would it ever be a good idea to limit your ability to score multiple runs IN THE FIRST INNING? Especially against an awful pitcher like Tim Redding?

This is not the Deadball Era anymore, 9. One-run strategies should be left for times when one-run makes a huge difference. The first inning is not that time.


And this is the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates.
Tim Redding? Awful pitcher? You really want to make an argument about the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates' performance against awful pitchers? With Wilson hitting second, Vasquez in the lineup, Sanchez on the bench and Garrett Jones in the lineup? I just bet that you were predicting that this lineup was going to put up 5 runs in the first four innings.
There is a psychological component to a game. Getting ahead, scoring the first run. For a team that has struggled to score recently with one of its better hitters on the bench . . . boost of confidence. And, there are 8 more innings in which you can score.


9, I'm not a psychologist, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that the psychological effect of putting up multiple runs is a lot more demoralizing to the opposing team that simply scoring a single run.

But putting aside psychology, as that is neither of our fields, the time to sacrifice is not when you have an awful pitcher on the mound with a guy who has hit .341 in the last month. In the first inning.

You're focusing on the situation, I am too. I'm not looking at any run tables. I'm saying Jack is hitting well enough at this point, and Redding is pitching poorly enough, and you have a fast runner on second, and it's early in the game, so bunting is not what you do here.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:40 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Willton wrote:
Fine, perhaps we should also look at the inning in which a bunt is called. When would it ever be a good idea to limit your ability to score multiple runs IN THE FIRST INNING? Especially against an awful pitcher like Tim Redding?

This is not the Deadball Era anymore, 9. One-run strategies should be left for times when one-run makes a huge difference. The first inning is not that time.


And this is the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates.
Tim Redding? Awful pitcher? You really want to make an argument about the 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates' performance against awful pitchers? With Wilson hitting second, Vasquez in the lineup, Sanchez on the bench and Garrett Jones in the lineup? I just bet that you were predicting that this lineup was going to put up 5 runs in the first four innings.

I certainly was not predicting that the Bucs would score 5 runs because I don't make silly predictions like that. I've seen the Pirates put up 7 runs against the likes of Mike Pelfry and Ryan Dempster, and I've seen the bats go silent against the likes of Gavin Floyd, so making any prediction on how many runs would be scored is silly. But I do know that giving away outs is not a good way to beat a team that averages 4.45 runs per game, as the Mets do, and that bunting when you have 0 outs in the 1st inning with a man on 2nd is a great way limit whatever scoring opportunities you may have.

No. 9 wrote:
There is a psychological component to a game. Getting ahead, scoring the first run. For a team that has struggled to score recently with one of its better hitters on the bench . . . boost of confidence. And, there are 8 more innings in which you can score.

And you just squandered the best opportunity to score multiple runs that you've had so far in the game. The psychological component of the game doesn't mean sh*t to professionals; they know that it's going to take more than one run to win a game most of the time. I can assure you that the Mets would have been unfazed by one run being scored in the 1st inning, and if the Pirates think that one little run should make them confident that they can win the game, then they clearly have a very short memory.

Crooked numbers, not straight ones, breed confidence in position players. If you want to breed confidence in the players, let them know that you're confident that they can do more good swinging away than squaring around.

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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:05 pm 
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I think one thing we can all agree on is that this pitching performance, by both Maholm and his relievers, has been pathetic. Everyone else is doing their fair share on offense and defense.

No. 9, you asked about the sacrifice numbers...I get them from Baseball Reference. Here is Jack's batting page, scroll down to "Situational Hitting" and look under "SH."

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... -bat.shtml

Baseball Reference and Baseball Prospectus are by far my favorite baseball websites. BR has gotten so much better since I started going to it for statistical information ten years ago. They have almost every stat you could want, unless you want the really nerdy stats like VORP, WARP, and FRAR, in which case BP has those.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Jones is a single away from the cycle!


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Jones is just a single away from the cycle....back to within 2 runs. I think extra innings would be great....supposed to be a day off, rain delay and extra innings....

I can't believe no one has said anything about the Leave it to Beaver episode when June declared "you were a little rough on the beaver last night, Ward".


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Adam "No-clutch" LaRoche goes yard in the 9th! Draws ire of fans by looking nonplussed while rounding the bases. Film at eleven.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:02 pm 
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LaRoche should've bunted Sanchez to second.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:02 pm 
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Nice Pinch hit by Freddy for Adam to put one over the fence...

Jones...I'd like the cycle, but the game winning HR would be better...

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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Did I call this or what?


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:10 pm 
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C'mon, Moss...make me a liar.


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 Post subject: Re: July 2, 2009 Mets (38-39) at Pirates (36-42)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Can Moss be a hero? Runners on the corner 2 outs!!!

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