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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:10 am 
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doug frobel wrote:
Whether Adam came through with the bases loaded and two outs or not, any student of the game would agree that was a hell of an at bat. I have no problem with the first pitch take- Wood had just walked two, and if he falls behind Adam, he has to groove one. Also, it was a 77 mph curve- not what Adam was probably looking for. He did a great job laying off a slider in the dirt to run the count full. A month ago, he would have struck out on that pitch. The ball he fouled off was a slider in that was way too close to take with two strikes. The final pitch was a 96 mph fastball right on the inside corner. Tip your hat to Wood- he stunk, but he made that pitch when he had to. Adam got jammed and flew out to right. If that drifts out over the plate, I believe Adam would have hit it out. He put a good swing on it.

Seriously guys, sometimes you have to just put the stats away and watch the game and make your judgments on what your eyes tell you.

Couldn't agree more, Doug. Laroche had a good game, 2 for 5 with a home run and an RBI. Plus, don't forget his excellent play in the first where he bailed out Snell who was slow to cover the bag. Were it not for that, Snell probably would have come unhinged in the first rather than the third.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:26 am 
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No Doug is wasn't that close. Warning track. LaRoche made more than one better than average play at first last night. The pitch he hit to end the game was just enough in that he couldn't get it on the sweet spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Thanks for the visuals, nad. Actually I have seen JR.. I remember now. He looks like he should be an accountant or something, not a manager. I also recall seeing him wearing a "7" that looks like a "2."

Not going to Dave & Buster's after all. I can't take my kid because she will be bored out of her mind. The next time I see a Pirates game it will have to be live.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Ollie, how does a kid get bored and Dave and Buster's?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:47 pm 
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I thought Dave & Buster's was a sports bar. There are activities for kids? I mean is it like a Chuck E Cheese's? She's afraid to be left alone anywhere anyway. I wouldn't be able to watch her playing and watch the game (remember Zachy's tossing a shutout tonight.)


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Dave and Busters is like a giant game room with TV's and all.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:35 pm 
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I don't like D&B. Games, fun..bah... Really though, it does nothing to encourage my already highly repressed maturity.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:47 pm 
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I can relate. I suck at all games video.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:13 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Whether Adam came through with the bases loaded and two outs or not, any student of the game would agree that was a hell of an at bat. I have no problem with the first pitch take- Wood had just walked two, and if he falls behind Adam, he has to groove one. Also, it was a 77 mph curve- not what Adam was probably looking for. He did a great job laying off a slider in the dirt to run the count full. A month ago, he would have struck out on that pitch. The ball he fouled off was a slider in that was way too close to take with two strikes. The final pitch was a 96 mph fastball right on the inside corner. Tip your hat to Wood- he stunk, but he made that pitch when he had to. Adam got jammed and flew out to right. If that drifts out over the plate, I believe Adam would have hit it out. He put a good swing on it.

Seriously guys, sometimes you have to just put the stats away and watch the game and make your judgments on what your eyes tell you.

Couldn't agree more, Doug. Laroche had a good game, 2 for 5 with a home run and an RBI. Plus, don't forget his excellent play in the first where he bailed out Snell who was slow to cover the bag. Were it not for that, Snell probably would have come unhinged in the first rather than the third.


Couldn't agree less...didn't Bucfan just show with statistics that LaRoche has been pretty good this year in clutch situations? I agree with your conclusion but definitely not your methodology. LaRoche has been in the league long enough that we don't need to rely on mere impressions to judge his performance in these situations.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:13 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I can relate. I suck at all games video.

Once upon a time, I played a mean game of space invaders.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:32 pm 
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I agree it was a good at bat, and a very entertaining inning. Too bad we lost. Oh well, get 'em next game!


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:10 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Whether Adam came through with the bases loaded and two outs or not, any student of the game would agree that was a hell of an at bat. I have no problem with the first pitch take- Wood had just walked two, and if he falls behind Adam, he has to groove one. Also, it was a 77 mph curve- not what Adam was probably looking for. He did a great job laying off a slider in the dirt to run the count full. A month ago, he would have struck out on that pitch. The ball he fouled off was a slider in that was way too close to take with two strikes. The final pitch was a 96 mph fastball right on the inside corner. Tip your hat to Wood- he stunk, but he made that pitch when he had to. Adam got jammed and flew out to right. If that drifts out over the plate, I believe Adam would have hit it out. He put a good swing on it.

Seriously guys, sometimes you have to just put the stats away and watch the game and make your judgments on what your eyes tell you.


Give that man a prize. We have a winner!

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:17 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
Couldn't agree less...didn't Bucfan just show with statistics that LaRoche has been pretty good this year in clutch situations? I agree with your conclusion but definitely not your methodology. LaRoche has been in the league long enough that we don't need to rely on mere impressions to judge his performance in these situations.


Doug's only point was that LaRoche had a good at-bat despite the final result. Had he popped up weakly to second base on an 88 mph high fast ball on a 3-0 count, that would be a bad at-bat. If he got a seeing eye bloop hit on a low pitch on a 3-0 count, that would not have been a good at-bat. The result would have been good, but the approach? Not good. No statistic can tell the whole story about whether an individual at-bat was good/bad.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:23 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
jaybee24 wrote:
Couldn't agree less...didn't Bucfan just show with statistics that LaRoche has been pretty good this year in clutch situations? I agree with your conclusion but definitely not your methodology. LaRoche has been in the league long enough that we don't need to rely on mere impressions to judge his performance in these situations.


Doug's only point was that LaRoche had a good at-bat despite the final result. Had he popped up weakly to second base on an 88 mph high fast ball on a 3-0 count, that would be a bad at-bat. If he got a seeing eye bloop hit on a low pitch on a 3-0 count, that would not have been a good at-bat. The result would have been good, but the approach? Not good. No statistic can tell the whole story about whether an individual at-bat was good/bad.


Ok, I did miss Doug's point a bit. I was still speaking in the context of Adam's "clutchness," whereas Doug had moved the conversation to his performance in that single AB. However, I do think the more relevant discussion is Adam's performance in those situations in the long run.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:31 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
jaybee24 wrote:
Couldn't agree less...didn't Bucfan just show with statistics that LaRoche has been pretty good this year in clutch situations? I agree with your conclusion but definitely not your methodology. LaRoche has been in the league long enough that we don't need to rely on mere impressions to judge his performance in these situations.


Doug's only point was that LaRoche had a good at-bat despite the final result. Had he popped up weakly to second base on an 88 mph high fast ball on a 3-0 count, that would be a bad at-bat. If he got a seeing eye bloop hit on a low pitch on a 3-0 count, that would not have been a good at-bat. The result would have been good, but the approach? Not good. No statistic can tell the whole story about whether an individual at-bat was good/bad.

BTW, can you imagine if he had "popped up weakly" on the first pitch? Ryann, Doey and company would be screaming, "How could he swing at the first pitch when Wood had walked the previous two batters?!?!?" Instead, since he took the first pitch (as he should have), they scream, "How could he not swing at that first pitch over the heart of the plate?!?!?"


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Face it Laroche is the worst clutch hitter on the team he has hit 220 risp this season. He kills our team. It figures he can hit a homerun down 5 in the ninth but when we really need him to come through he doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Are we really ripping a guy in game who went 2 for 5 with a homerun? A line of 400/400/1.000?? An OPS of 1.400???


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:10 pm 
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yeah in a game the pirates lost. Oh and in a game were he could have won the game for us with a single. Shit if laroche was batting 300 risp this year the pirates would be 500.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:17 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
yeah in a game the pirates lost. Oh and in a game were he could have won the game for us with a single. Shit if laroche was batting 300 risp this year the pirates would be 500.


Right, because it was his fault that no one was on base when he hit that HR and single.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs Indians 6/23
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:18 pm 
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I gotta say, as soon as I saw him, I mumbled "Rally Killer" to my wife. She nodded knowingly.

Heck, its not about did he have a good game, or not. Its about what he did in the situation required of him. I give him props for his approach, but believe it out of the norm, not the norm.

ZM

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