Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:11 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5144
Location: Pittsburgh
Clevelandsux wrote:
Very discouraging loss. Great comeback, but to nill. Not a big fan of Mazzaro.

He might be the best 6th man out of the bullpen in the major leagues.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5144
Location: Pittsburgh
MoTownWV wrote:
How many did we leave on base? All I know for certain it was too many.

Also anyone else take exception with Martin being held at 3rd? With 2 outs, I would have sent him. I'd be more understanding of holding him with 1 out or less.

I don't blame Leyva for holding him. I've seen Puig throw.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:03 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 2214
I've seen both cutch and marte make poor base running errors.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10582
sisyphus wrote:
I don't blame Leyva for holding him. I've seen Puig throw.

He has a big arm but plays in a panic in RF and overthrows more guys than Latin American revolutionaries.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6134
Location: Keystone State
Pirates couldn't get big hits when they needed them. Plenty of opportunities. Mazzaro is a convenient target for the goat, but Andrew could be blamed for his last two at-bats.

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10582
bucco boy wrote:
Pirates couldn't get big hits when they needed them. Plenty of opportunities.

Losing Marte's bat is big. The Pirates do not have enough offense to overcome the loss of their 2nd best hitter.

Further, lefty starters = problems re Jones, Alvarez, Snider.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2150
sisyphus wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
McCutchen "assuming" a DP just cost the Bucs a run. Had been going hard, it would have been 2-0. With Kershaw on the mound, that is a HUGE mental error. Dang.

I've been stewing over that ever since it happened. Now the Pirates are down two in the eleventh, and it looks like he's going to end up costing his teammates a win.

Everybody hustled on that play except McCutchen. I get sick every time I hear the announcers talk about the way Andrew always hustles. It just isn't so. If I were Hurdles I'd be sitting his ass tomorrow.

Please. He hustles more than just about any player in baseball, and certainly more than most stars. It was a routine play. He WAS coasting in to third, as just about every other player would've been doing. In a 162 game season there are going to be plays that are assumed to be made but aren't. That play was about as routine as there is. But yea...lets bench the biggest hustler on the team for something like that... :roll:


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:44 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5529
sisyphus wrote:
Clevelandsux wrote:
Very discouraging loss. Great comeback, but to nill. Not a big fan of Mazzaro.

He might be the best 6th man out of the bullpen in the major leagues.


:D

This.

---

Maz was doing alright until recently. After today he's given up a run or more in three of his last four outings (a total of 5 ER). In the 25.2 IP prior he only gave up 5 ER. Maybe it's just a typical 'regression' blip, or maybe he has used up his 'reliable fourth/fifth option' ness.

Morris seems to have overtaken him as a more reliable option, at least for now.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5144
Location: Pittsburgh
Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I don't blame Leyva for holding him. I've seen Puig throw.

He has a big arm but plays in a panic in RF and overthrows more guys than Latin American revolutionaries.

True. I'd have sent the runner if it would have taken a good throw to get him, but I'm pretty sure that even an awful throw would have gotten him on that play.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5144
Location: Pittsburgh
PirateParrot wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
McCutchen "assuming" a DP just cost the Bucs a run. Had been going hard, it would have been 2-0. With Kershaw on the mound, that is a HUGE mental error. Dang.

I've been stewing over that ever since it happened. Now the Pirates are down two in the eleventh, and it looks like he's going to end up costing his teammates a win.

Everybody hustled on that play except McCutchen. I get sick every time I hear the announcers talk about the way Andrew always hustles. It just isn't so. If I were Hurdles I'd be sitting his ass tomorrow.

Please. He hustles more than just about any player in baseball, and certainly more than most stars.

Bullshit. He routinely assumes "double" on balls in the gap or down the line. I've mentioned this before, going back to last year. As far as hustle goes, Cecil Fielder puts him to shame, among others.

Quote:
It was a routine play. He WAS coasting in to third, as just about every other player would've been doing.

Walking would have been a better description, as far as speed goes. No play is routine; none. And I don't care what other players might do. He's a star. He's the face of the team, and a leader. You lead by example, and he set a damned poor example on that play, and cost his team a game.

I shudder to think what we'd be reading here if it had been Pedro or Tabata out there instead of McCutchen on that play.

Quote:
In a 162 game season there are going to be plays that are assumed to be made but aren't.

So?

Quote:
That play was about as routine as there is. But yea...lets bench the biggest hustler on the team for something like that... :roll:

Andrew is the best player on the team. He's the fastest player on the team. Don't confuse talent or speed with hustle. I've been watching baseball for close to 50 years now. I never saw Clemente do that. I never saw Pete Rose do that. I never saw Dave Parker do that, even when his knees were just about killing him. Hell, I hate Derek Jeter, but Derek Jeter scores that run. I'll say it again; I'd sit him. It wouldn't be the first time Hurdle had to sit McCutchen for failing to hustle. Maybe the message will sink in this time. It obviously didn't the last time.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:54 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6215
I must resepectfully disagree with the previous post.... :) :) :)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:32 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:28 pm
Posts: 673
Az Bucco fan wrote:
I must resepectfully disagree with the previous post.... :) :) :)


+1


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:43 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6215
I put this loss on Hurdle....He got 5 from Cumpton and with an extremely well rested bullpen should have taken the 5 he got and not gotten greedy... I am beginning to have some concerns about Hurdle's decision making.....The fascination with Inge and Barmes is a bit disturbing... I like his positive upbeat attitude but some of his lineup and pitching decisions are a red flag to me....JMHO........ 8-) 8-) 8-)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:15 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I don't blame Leyva for holding him. I've seen Puig throw.

He has a big arm but plays in a panic in RF and overthrows more guys than Latin American revolutionaries.


I thought Leyva should have sent him.......then I saw the replay from the 3rd base point of view. Sisy is right, had the throw hit the cut off man, Martin would have been out by 20 feet. Bucfan is also right, Puig did panic and the throw ended up being about as crazy as Augusto Pinochet.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:14 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5536
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/spo ... al-691867/

I'm not thinking that Cutch should be benched but his base running cost the Bucs a run. That simple observation is not my indictment of him as a person or a player. It's an observation. And, as identified in the story above, assuming a double play is inconsistent with the theme of being aggressive on the base paths. No down side to going hard. Run hard and the Dodgers pay for their mistake.

Players make mistakes. I personally despise mental errors . . . . It's a product of what was drilled into my head as a player . . . always know the situation and always force the other team to make plays and capitalize on mistakes.

The Bucs' margin for error is so slim that opportunities must be seized and I really would have preferred to see Cutch being more aggressive given the mound opponent, the game situation and the likely need to help Cumpton.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:20 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5536
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
Az Bucco fan wrote:
I put this loss on Hurdle....He got 5 from Cumpton and with an extremely well rested bullpen should have taken the 5 he got and not gotten greedy... I am beginning to have some concerns about Hurdle's decision making.....The fascination with Inge and Barmes is a bit disturbing... I like his positive upbeat attitude but some of his lineup and pitching decisions are a red flag to me....JMHO........ 8-) 8-) 8-)


As I watched the game, I thought that the 5th inning was telling. It certainly looked like the Dodgers had figured him out. While I don't mind the decision to start the 6th, I would have had someone warming in the pen and yanked Cumpton after the first hit - even if it would have come with 2 outs. I agree that Hurdle took a chance to squeeze a bit too much out of Cumpton yesterday.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4153
Location: Zelienople, PA
Reading posts on last two starts, i think some are ignoring Hurdles statement that he wants seven no matter the pitch count.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2150
sisyphus wrote:
Andrew is the best player on the team. He's the fastest player on the team. Don't confuse talent or speed with hustle. I've been watching baseball for close to 50 years now. I never saw Clemente do that. I never saw Pete Rose do that. I never saw Dave Parker do that, even when his knees were just about killing him. Hell, I hate Derek Jeter, but Derek Jeter scores that run. I'll say it again; I'd sit him. It wouldn't be the first time Hurdle had to sit McCutchen for failing to hustle. Maybe the message will sink in this time. It obviously didn't the last time.

The only thing I'll come close to conceding to you on this one is that Cutch is a poor base runner. I'm not sure he still understands all of the nuances of the game, in particular with base running. He still has no idea how to get a proper lead and jump when stealing bases, which leads to him getting thrown out more than he should with his speed.

I refuse to believe you saw every single play Clemente, Rose, Parker, et. al made. Today these guys are on TV every day. None of us on this board have played through a 162 game season. I have to think even the biggest hustlers in the game occasionally assume a play will be made, especially a two hopper right at a guy. This is major league baseball, not Legion ball. Cutch's teammates have stated how hard he plays. Joe Maddon, one of the most respected guys in the game, commented how much Cutch hustled in SPRING TRAINING. For some reason you are picking out one time where he appeared to not hustle. And again, I'm not sure it doesn't have as much to do with his baseball acumen. If you watched the replay, he was looking over his shoulder at the play instead of watching/listening to his base coach...not exactly the way they teach you.

You are way off base making it sound like Cutch doesn't hustle and set an example. You want lack of hustle...watch the best hitter in the game today, Miguel Cabrera, when he hits a ground ball at an infielder. I'm old school too. That's why I hate Pedro wearing his hat like he does. Hate seeing these guys wear their pants to their heels. Hate seeing all the conversations between players on opposing teams on the field...all of it... and I hate seeing them not hustle. Just think you are picking on the wrong guy here...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:47 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6215
ZelieMike wrote:
i think some are ignoring Hurdles statement that he wants seven no matter the pitch count.

ZM


And that statement is part of the problem. A "one size fits all" approach is, IMHO, not a good approach. Yes, I understand that they are major league players, but in this case, Hurdle had gotten 5 pretty good innings out of a guy who 3 days previously had no inkling that he would be called up. He also had a bullpen full of 6,7 and 8th inning guys who were more than adequately rested that he could use in just this type of situation. At times, Hurdle reminds me of a placard that a friend of mine's mom has on her wall. It states that "You can sure tell a Swede, but you can't tell 'em much." HIs infatuation with certain players goes beyond reason. Let's hope he doesn't become part of the problem instead of part of the solution.... 8-) 8-) 8-)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Pirates vs dodgers 6-15-13
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:20 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5529
Az Bucco fan wrote:
I put this loss on Hurdle....He got 5 from Cumpton and with an extremely well rested bullpen should have taken the 5 he got and not gotten greedy... JMHO........ 8-) 8-) 8-)


There were so many little errors by the Pirates that cost them the game yesterday (base running, 'clutch' hitting, managerial decisions) that it's hard to pinpoint just one.

Still, you could put his decision to stick with Cumpton in the running for #1 reason and it'd have a real case.

Of all the things that the Bucs could control, the decision to ride with Cumpton was paramount and proved to be fatal.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits