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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:00 am 
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Ring that one up on mr.clint hurdle! With a 4-2 lead he puts Reid in, just called up from minors. Upton homers, ties the game up. The pirates are having offensive woes, knowingly. Thank you Clint!

Now we once again will have to win tomorrow in order to not get swept. This club thinks they can go into extra innings every night and win. You have to start scoring runs!


Last edited by Clevelandsux on Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:03 am 
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Walks really hurt. Seems like our pitchers hand so many out. Sometimes you just have to pound the zone. Locke, 100 pitches in 5 and 2/3rds? Not efficient enough.

On the other hand it seems like the bucco hitters rarely work the count. Of course maybe its my imagination. The opposing pitchers are probably just hammering the hitting zone.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:15 am 
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This is a big reason why a lot of people are calling for regressions. A lot of our pitchers have REALLY high strand rates. Meaning they aren't being burned on walks and hits like you'd expect. It's starting to catch up to them now.

I don't know about pitching Reid. You need one out, against a hitter who is REALLY scuffling. Hindsight is 20-20 but playing the odds, I'm okay with putting the rookie in. It backfired, but the strategy made sense. It's a bullpen that's been overly taxed as it is. If you can sneak an out out of a rookie, go Watson in 7, and then the usual 8/9 guys, you're close to having the bullpen to where it was prior to the long game.

Even the worst pitcher in baseball gets guys out better than 50% of the time. It's a decent numbers play to give your actual bullpen guys (the ones who will be counted on all year) a day off if possible.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:18 am 
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I think locke could have gotten one more out.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:25 am 
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Maybe. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20. But he'd just given up a hit, was over 100 pitches, and was looking at a lefty-righty matchup. That's a pretty typical time to pull somebody who isn't pitching an absolute gem (looking at a no-hitter or complete game shutout type of situation).

If he doesn't pull him then, we're talking about how we could tell Locke was fatigued and it was stupid to not put in a righty to face him. Always amazes me how certain people can always unequivocally say " he left him in too long" or "he could have gotten another out" based on what happens, but are typically incorrect while games are going on.

Edit: Just play the numbers and more often than not you'll wind up ahead. If it backfires, it backfires. Sometimes it'll happen. Just like the worst pitcher will still get out >50% of the guys he faces, the worst hitter will still hit >0% against every pitcher eventually.

There's too much romance and emotion placed on decisions and outcomes sometimes, IMO. Baseball really is, above all else, a numbers game. Managers get too much credit/blame, from what I typically see.

A guy like Dusty Baker, who ruins pitchers' arms....yeah he's awful. Hurdle, to me, bunts in bad situations too much. LaRussa overmanaged and overspecialized too much, IMO. No need for a LOOGY in baseball. But generally, it's just putting together a lineup and then putting guys in favorable positions. Can't judge them on outcomes, only on the strategy behind it.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 am 
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This constant lineup shuffling is helping matters either.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:44 am 
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while we are still 11 games over .500 this team still scares me at times, even with a solid pitching staff. I have noticed what others on this board have noticed and that is we are getting way to high in the pitch counts way to early in the game. Getting behind in the count and walking as many as we do is not helping that trend, our bullpen no matter how great it is will fall flat on its face come August if we continue to only get and average of 6 innings from our starters. We have to be more efficient and start pounding the strike zone.

hitting, same thing, we have no identity as an offense and we are trying new lineups to see if they work, i hope we are in nothing more than a slump, but the numbers of the MM&M boys (mcutchen,marte and martin) have stayed the same for the past month it seems, especially marte and martin, in the begining of may marte had 5 home runs and 17 rbi's, today is June 5th and he has 5 home runs and 18 rbi, begining of may martin had 6 home runs and 12 rbi, now he has 6 home runs and 14 rbi....


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:41 am 
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batterup wrote:
while we are still 11 games over .500 this team still scares me at times, even with a solid pitching staff. I have noticed what others on this board have noticed and that is we are getting way to high in the pitch counts way to early in the game. Getting behind in the count and walking as many as we do is not helping that trend, our bullpen no matter how great it is will fall flat on its face come August if we continue to only get and average of 6 innings from our starters. We have to be more efficient and start pounding the strike zone.

hitting, same thing, we have no identity as an offense and we are trying new lineups to see if they work, i hope we are in nothing more than a slump, but the numbers of the MM&M boys (mcutchen,marte and martin) have stayed the same for the past month it seems, especially marte and martin, in the begining of may marte had 5 home runs and 17 rbi's, today is June 5th and he has 5 home runs and 18 rbi, begining of may martin had 6 home runs and 12 rbi, now he has 6 home runs and 14 rbi....

Well, we all have the same concerns. But for now, I am going to be pleased with how we are overachieving. We have the fourth best record in the NL but by whatever stat you want to use -- BA, hits, total bases, walks -- we are about the 10th best hitting team in the NL. Which means we are playing better than we are. We have one stud, McCutchen, who is fine, but does need to prove that last year wasn't a career-type year for him. We have a gem catching for this team, Martin, and he's got some pop, but he was brought here for his defense. We have one fine young guy who's showing he belongs, Marte, but I still think we are misusing him as a leadoff guy. We have one guy with true power, Alvarez, but while he's 15th in the majors in HRs, he is also 50th in RBIs, which means he's not really altering games and pitchers. And we have a ton of guys who are good, solid pros, who we're all happy to have around: Walker, Sanchez, Jones, and Snider, and while we do remember and focus on their positives (which is a testament to this board), they strike me that they are average at best. And while the bench has gotten better, pretty much everyone there has some pretty serious holes in their games. So, no help's arriving there.

All I want this year is 83 wins. 83. We do that, and I'll be happy. And it looks like we can certainly achieve that this season.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:54 am 
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val wrote:
batterup wrote:
while we are still 11 games over .500 this team still scares me at times, even with a solid pitching staff. I have noticed what others on this board have noticed and that is we are getting way to high in the pitch counts way to early in the game. Getting behind in the count and walking as many as we do is not helping that trend, our bullpen no matter how great it is will fall flat on its face come August if we continue to only get and average of 6 innings from our starters. We have to be more efficient and start pounding the strike zone.

hitting, same thing, we have no identity as an offense and we are trying new lineups to see if they work, i hope we are in nothing more than a slump, but the numbers of the MM&M boys (mcutchen,marte and martin) have stayed the same for the past month it seems, especially marte and martin, in the begining of may marte had 5 home runs and 17 rbi's, today is June 5th and he has 5 home runs and 18 rbi, begining of may martin had 6 home runs and 12 rbi, now he has 6 home runs and 14 rbi....

Well, we all have the same concerns. But for now, I am going to be pleased with how we are overachieving. We have the fourth best record in the NL but by whatever stat you want to use -- BA, hits, total bases, walks -- we are about the 10th best hitting team in the NL. Which means we are playing better than we are. We have one stud, McCutchen, who is fine, but does need to prove that last year wasn't a career-type year for him. We have a gem catching for this team, Martin, and he's got some pop, but he was brought here for his defense. We have one fine young guy who's showing he belongs, Marte, but I still think we are misusing him as a leadoff guy. We have one guy with true power, Alvarez, but while he's 15th in the majors in HRs, he is also 50th in RBIs, which means he's not really altering games and pitchers. And we have a ton of guys who are good, solid pros, who we're all happy to have around: Walker, Sanchez, Jones, and Snider, and while we do remember and focus on their positives (which is a testament to this board), they strike me that they are average at best. And while the bench has gotten better, pretty much everyone there has some pretty serious holes in their games. So, no help's arriving there.

All I want this year is 83 wins. 83. We do that, and I'll be happy. And it looks like we can certainly achieve that this season.


Why 83 ways? Wouldn't 82 satisfy you?

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:59 am 
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Ryann wrote:

Why 83 ways? Wouldn't 82 satisfy you?

82 beats a losing season, but then we'd still be on a New Streak: 21 seasons without a winning season. Yuck. Just break The Streak and post more wins than losses. Of course, if we were to finish 82 and 81, that would be OK, but I hate finishing a season incomplete. It means our games didn't matter.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:05 pm 
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val wrote:
Ryann wrote:

Why 83 ways? Wouldn't 82 satisfy you?

82 beats a losing season, but then we'd still be on a New Streak: 21 seasons without a winning season. Yuck. Just break The Streak and post more wins than losses. Of course, if we were to finish 82 and 81, that would be OK, but I hate finishing a season incomplete. It means our games didn't matter.



Val, I love the optimism and I tend to agree, 83 wins would be great, but 82 wins would guarentee us a winning season, we play 162 games, so if we got 82 wins than we have 80 losses which would give us a winning % over .500....


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:41 pm 
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batterup wrote:
val wrote:
Ryann wrote:

Why 83 ways? Wouldn't 82 satisfy you?

82 beats a losing season, but then we'd still be on a New Streak: 21 seasons without a winning season. Yuck. Just break The Streak and post more wins than losses. Of course, if we were to finish 82 and 81, that would be OK, but I hate finishing a season incomplete. It means our games didn't matter.



Val, I love the optimism and I tend to agree, 83 wins would be great, but 82 wins would guarentee us a winning season, we play 162 games, so if we got 82 wins than we have 80 losses which would give us a winning % over .500....

Where is that head slap icon when you need it? Sound like an f***in idiot...


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:29 pm 
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83-79 would be much better than 82-80..... ;)

This team needs to display more patience on offense and the starters need to be more efficient. Our bullpen is going to wear out!


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:39 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I wasn't aware there was a runner on third during the walkoff hit.


Just watched the replay of the game winning (or losing) hit. I think I know where you are going with this. It appeared that runners were on first and second . . . and the ball didn't not reach the warning track. Martin was playing very shallow. Perhaps it was because they wanted Martin to have a shot at throwing out the runner at home on a single. Perhaps it was because they didn't think Simmons had enough opposite field power. Who knows? But . . . it certainly appears - at least to me - that the ball would have been catchable by a decent right fielder who was not playing shallow.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:57 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
I wasn't aware there was a runner on third during the walkoff hit.


Just watched the replay of the game winning (or losing) hit. I think I know where you are going with this. It appeared that runners were on first and second . . . and the ball didn't not reach the warning track. Martin was playing very shallow. Perhaps it was because they wanted Martin to have a shot at throwing out the runner at home on a single. Perhaps it was because they didn't think Simmons had enough opposite field power. Who knows? But . . . it certainly appears - at least to me - that the ball would have been catchable by a decent right fielder who was not playing shallow.


Snider was in RF at the end of the game...Martin was moved back behind the plate.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Its only appropriate that Brandon Inge breaks up the no-no.

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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.
About the only good thing that I can write is . . . so long to the Braves in 2013 unless its the playoffs.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: June 4, 2013 Pirates (35-23) at Braves (35-22)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:17 pm 
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I'm not one of those losers that only goal is to get 82 wins. That isn't much of a winning season. I want a contender. That's like hoping the steelers win 9 games.


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