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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Very nice game by Wandy. Wandy & Burnett are awesome to have. Morton was hitting 97 in his rehab start tonight and threw 22 of 28 fastballs for strikes. Bats are now going....good days to be a Bucs fan. Liriano throws for Altoona soon. Starts the 30 day window for him and Morton.

Wonder if Pens playoffs will have to be over for the stadium to start to fill up.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:16 pm 
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I'm sure we're all willing to wait as long as the pens win the whole damn thing.

Very nice win tonight. Wandy without the rust was great to see.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:06 am 
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psubar12 wrote:
yeah, I hear you. Mercer, though is batting .308 in Indy with OPS of .862, so that looks a lot better than .111/.300 of Barmes that you get. I guess I just don't understand why we continue to sign and keep guys like McDonald and Sanchez who clearly stink when you have guys who are clearly younger and better now. I know Barmes won't be gotten rid of, but can't we kind of transition Mercer into that starting role? It's so early in the season, it is good for Mercer to get ABs in the minors, but by the middle of the year, I'd really like to see Mercer here and taking starts away from Barmes gradually.


Well let me spell it out for you. They signed McDonald because he can play shortstop better than any of the other backup options we had availabe. Sanchez made the team because they felt that he was one of the best 5 available coming out of spring training.

The jordy is still out on Mercer. He is clearly younger but not clearly better. He has done very little at the major league level, and is a borderline prospect on both offense and defense.

The best course of action right now is to keep playing Barmes. If he doesn't start hitting eventually, they will be forced to look for other options.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:08 am 
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Animal wrote:
Clevelandsux wrote:
RTJR wrote:
Melancon has been solid.


Very true.


Pirates management team certainly knows how to build a solid bullpen. You have to give them that!


This is a myth. The bullpen looks good right now, but over the course of Huntington's tenure the perception of his bullpens has been much better than the reality.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:23 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Animal wrote:

Pirates management team certainly knows how to build a solid bullpen. You have to give them that!


This is a myth. The bullpen looks good right now, but over the course of Huntington's tenure the perception of his bullpens has been much better than the reality.


Its no myth, the season totals are a poor measure of his success. Most of the years we have been out of it early and the bullpen has been filled with "take-a-look" types inflating the combined numbers. There were also trades that weakened the final totals. Looks at the top 3-4 late inning guys each year and you will see his success building very good 7th-9th inning pens on a very cheap budget.

Its hard to argue with Hanrahan, Grilli, Dotel, Melancon, Meek, Resop, Cruz, D.Cutch, Carrasco, and Lopez all acquired cheaply since 2010 and gave us high quality late inning numbers. NH has teh exact correct approach on bullpen building.

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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:55 pm 
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I agree he has found a lot of productive relievers without spending a lot of money, and I have no problem with his approach.

But judged on the whole, his bullpens have not been good statistically. If you want to include only certain players or certain parts of the season in your evaluation, feel free.

Of course the starting rotation has a lot to do with it, and we have been weak there too. When your rotation is good, the bulk of the innings go to your top relievers, and the numbers are naturally going to be better. Which is not what we usually see from our teams.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:18 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I'm sure we're all willing to wait as long as the pens win the whole damn thing.


Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
The jordy is still out on Mercer. He is clearly younger but not clearly better. He has done very little at the major league level, and is a borderline prospect on both offense and defense.


It's hard to criticize a guy for performing poorly at the Major League level when he barely has any experience to speak of. If you're just going off of his 50 or so ABs last year, keep in mind that the Pirates promoted him from AAA only to more or less bench him for the better part of about 5 months, often times going about a dozen if not more games without him getting any playing time, even in PH opportunities (they even let Harrison become the primary back-up shortstop, despite that he barely knew the position and was having a rather dismal year offensively).

Mercer's defense is also highly regarded so it's not true that he's considered a "borderline prospect" in that regard, and for a SS he has hit well including with some power in the minors. I simply refuse to believe that John McDonald is a better option at Mercer, he certainly isn't at the plate, and I even have doubts that an aging McDonald is a much better defender than Mercer would have been. But Clint Hurdle clearly has an aversion to Mercer, just like when he did something very similar with Ciriaco the year before. McDonald is a total waste of a roster spot.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
If you want to include only certain players or certain parts of the season in your evaluation, feel free.


Sounds like you're the one "including only certain players in your evaluation" if you're excusing the late inning, best performing relievers in favor of only criticizing some bad relievers who have came through which no team in the league is immune to.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
psubar12 wrote:
yeah, I hear you. Mercer, though is batting .308 in Indy with OPS of .862, so that looks a lot better than .111/.300 of Barmes that you get. I guess I just don't understand why we continue to sign and keep guys like McDonald and Sanchez who clearly stink when you have guys who are clearly younger and better now. I know Barmes won't be gotten rid of, but can't we kind of transition Mercer into that starting role? It's so early in the season, it is good for Mercer to get ABs in the minors, but by the middle of the year, I'd really like to see Mercer here and taking starts away from Barmes gradually.


Well let me spell it out for you. They signed McDonald because he can play shortstop better than any of the other backup options we had availabe. Sanchez made the team because they felt that he was one of the best 5 available coming out of spring training.

The jordy is still out on Mercer. He is clearly younger but not clearly better. He has done very little at the major league level, and is a borderline prospect on both offense and defense.

The best course of action right now is to keep playing Barmes. If he doesn't start hitting eventually, they will be forced to look for other options.


Interesting take on things. I don't think McDonald is working out at all. I disagree that we don't have better options available. While I agree that Mercer is certainly not proven, I know that McDonald is proven, he is proven to suck. The same thing with J. Sanchez. J. Sanchez, or guys like him are always available. You can trade for them for a 54th round draft pick whenever you want. Why would you keep a guy like this and protect him like he is a commodity, and trot him out there to take an L every 5th day? I would be much happier with J. Wilson taking those starts. Find out what he can do, and if he can't do much, move him back to the bullpen and make that trade for a re-tread until guys are healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
This is a myth. The bullpen looks good right now, but over the course of Huntington's tenure the perception of his bullpens has been much better than the reality.


Go back and run the numbers again, but leave out all of the stiffs they had to call up after trading away the older guys that they dealt away at the trade deadline. The bullpens were pretty good (not great, just pretty good), but there was no depth in the minors to fill in once the trading started.

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 Post subject: Re: April 19th, Pirates Vs. Braves
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:48 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
I agree he has found a lot of productive relievers without spending a lot of money, and I have no problem with his approach.

But judged on the whole, his bullpens have not been good statistically. If you want to include only certain players or certain parts of the season in your evaluation, feel free.

Of course the starting rotation has a lot to do with it, and we have been weak there too. When your rotation is good, the bulk of the innings go to your top relievers, and the numbers are naturally going to be better. Which is not what we usually see from our teams.


I AM judging the whole. The pen has been very, very good over the past few years. Not perfect, but good. Yeah, you're gonna have a stinker every now and then, but you certainly cannot complain about the pen from top to bottom. Let's remember that these guys, particularly the middle guys were failed starters. Overall, they have done a really good job...not just the big name guys.

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