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 Post subject: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Some deranged jerk shot a security guard at the D.C. headquarters of the anti-gay hate group the Family Research Council this morning. The security guard's injury is minor and he is expected to make a full and swift recovery.

So who wants to bet that Fox News devotes at least 10 times as much coverage to this incident as they did the Sikh Temple shooting in Wisconsin the weekend before last?

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:16 pm 
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It took my brain entirely too much time to process the for/against implications of the phrase 'anti-gay hate group'.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Yep, and why is everyone who disagrees with a liberal a "hate" something or other? For chrissakes, the FRC is a bunch of born again christian's devoted to seeing the world through Ward Cleaver's eyes. Antiquated, yes. Hate, give me a break.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:47 pm 
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They fabricate and disseminate disinformation for the sole purpose of persecuting homosexuals. Pass it off as Ward Cleaver all you like. It's still bigotry, and bigotry springs from hatred.

Also, "hate group" is the Southern Poverty Law Center's designation, not mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:45 pm 
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And you have studied this "disinformation" extensively yourself, have you, so there is absolutely no question in your mind that its purpose is to "persecute?"

Or are you taking this position on faith from the Southern Poverty Law Center?

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
And you have studied this "disinformation" extensively yourself, have you, so there is absolutely no question in your mind that its purpose is to "persecute?"

Or are you taking this position on faith from the Southern Poverty Law Center?

Gay rights is my "pet cause", Bob. I know what I'm talking about. I'll provide a detailed response later (probably tomorrow), but in the meantime, step the fuck off.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Excuse me? Knock yourself out promoting/defending your pet cause. I'm sure you're more than capable of providing a detailed response. But I do not address anyone else on the board using that language and had assumed that similar respect would be shown to me. Guess I was mistaken in that belief.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Excuse me? Knock yourself out promoting/defending your pet cause. I'm sure you're more than capable of providing a detailed response. But I do not address anyone else on the board using that language and had assumed that similar respect would be shown to me. Guess I was mistaken in that belief.

You call what you posted respectful? Read it again. It wasn't respectful in any way, shape or form, so get off your high horse, you hypocrite. I'm sorry if your delicate sensibilites can't withstand a stray cuss word. I had assumed that you were an adult. Guess *I* was mistaken on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:22 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Bob in Boston wrote:
Excuse me? Knock yourself out promoting/defending your pet cause. I'm sure you're more than capable of providing a detailed response. But I do not address anyone else on the board using that language and had assumed that similar respect would be shown to me. Guess I was mistaken in that belief.

You call what you posted respectful? Read it again. It wasn't respectful in any way, shape or form, so get off your high horse, you hypocrite. I'm sorry if your delicate sensibilites can't withstand a stray cuss word. I had assumed that you were an adult. Guess *I* was mistaken on that one.

Classic Bob in Boston. I hope his foppish bluster does not discourage you from providing said detailed response. I, for one, would be interested in seeing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:34 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Bob in Boston wrote:
Excuse me? Knock yourself out promoting/defending your pet cause. I'm sure you're more than capable of providing a detailed response. But I do not address anyone else on the board using that language and had assumed that similar respect would be shown to me. Guess I was mistaken in that belief.

You call what you posted respectful? Read it again. It wasn't respectful in any way, shape or form, so get off your high horse, you hypocrite. I'm sorry if your delicate sensibilites can't withstand a stray cuss word. I had assumed that you were an adult. Guess *I* was mistaken on that one.

I've been on this board for only a little while, but you strike me as one thin-skinned individual, Judge. Bob's post maybe wasn't respectful, but it sure as heck wasn't disrespectful. And in challenging his post, you certainly the elevated the "disrespectful" stakes and you come off as the one on the high horse. Which is a pity, because gay rights is something I support and I would have enjoyed lurking in on a more mature conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:48 am 
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val wrote:
Judge Landis wrote:
Bob in Boston wrote:
Excuse me? Knock yourself out promoting/defending your pet cause. I'm sure you're more than capable of providing a detailed response. But I do not address anyone else on the board using that language and had assumed that similar respect would be shown to me. Guess I was mistaken in that belief.

You call what you posted respectful? Read it again. It wasn't respectful in any way, shape or form, so get off your high horse, you hypocrite. I'm sorry if your delicate sensibilites can't withstand a stray cuss word. I had assumed that you were an adult. Guess *I* was mistaken on that one.

I've been on this board for only a little while, but you strike me as one thin-skinned individual, Judge. Bob's post maybe wasn't respectful, but it sure as heck wasn't disrespectful. And in challenging his post, you certainly the elevated the "disrespectful" stakes and you come off as the one on the high horse. Which is a pity, because gay rights is something I support and I would have enjoyed lurking in on a more mature conversation.

Bob deserves every bit of vitriol for his comment. He commonly acts like he has a monopoly on the truth and freely disparages board members who hold differing viewpoints as not being informed, as he did with respect to Judge. Judge may be a bit looser with the profanity than most members of the board, but his post was not out of line.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:38 am 
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Let me say this right now before this thread threatens to take down this board.

There is an old adage that when you go to a dinner party, you never talk religion or politics.

With that said, I understand this is a message board and you are free to voice your opinion. That's why it exists.

However, as much as we might disagree with each other on certain subjects, please be respectful of others opinions and beliefs.

I have no horse in this race. I already see the tone in this thread and it is worrisome.

We lost a good poster unnecessarily for months because he was ridiculed on this board for his beliefs. Just trying to make sure that doesn't happen again.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:18 am 
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I've been thinking about this, and Willton and the Judge are right. My memory isn’t what it used to be, and I forgot that President Obama has instructed us conservative Christians to be more civil in discourse when these shootings occur. Hatred and intolerance are such dangerous impulses, especially coming from our side. Just ask the Southern Poverty Law Center, which clearly is the authority on the subject, having identified 1,018 hate groups across the country (notably the Family Research Council). One is in awe at such dedicated work. Thank goodness someone is on the case. After all, as we've seen, so many of the shooters have been conservatives.

Oh, wait, actually they haven’t. None of them has.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:30 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
I've been thinking about this, and Willton and the Judge are right. My memory isn’t what it used to be, and I forgot that President Obama has instructed us conservative Christians to be more civil in discourse when these shootings occur. Hatred and intolerance are such dangerous impulses, especially coming from our side. Just ask the Southern Poverty Law Center, which clearly is the authority on the subject, having identified 1,018 hate groups across the country (notably the Family Research Council). One is in awe at such dedicated work. Thank goodness someone is on the case. After all, as we've seen, so many of the shooters have been conservatives.

Oh, wait, actually they haven’t. None of them has.

Really? You don't think Wade Michael Page considered himself a conservative?

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:33 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
I've been thinking about this, and Willton and the Judge are right. My memory isn’t what it used to be, and I forgot that President Obama has instructed us conservative Christians to be more civil in discourse when these shootings occur. Hatred and intolerance are such dangerous impulses, especially coming from our side. Just ask the Southern Poverty Law Center, which clearly is the authority on the subject, having identified 1,018 hate groups across the country (notably the Family Research Council). One is in awe at such dedicated work. Thank goodness someone is on the case. After all, as we've seen, so many of the shooters have been conservatives.

Oh, wait, actually they haven’t. None of them has.

"Mainstream" conservative? No, of course not. Far-right conservative? Um, yes. Please see Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, every abortion doctor killer ever, and, as Willton has just pointed out, Wade Page.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:47 am 
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Also, I've been a big fan of the SPLC for about 20 years. They are not, despite what Bob wants you to believe, a liberal organization. They are a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization whose primary function is to provide free legal counsel to victims of hate crimes who couldn't otherwise afford it. Their Hatewatch monitoring organization is something they do on the side, and they monitor U.S. hate groups of all stripes, including the black separatist Muslims you may have encountered handing out free literature in their horn-rimmed glasses, suits and bowties on street corners in East Liberty.

So if you want to call the SPLC a liberal organization, then that means that you're implying that hate groups are exclusively a right-wing/conservative thing. Which I am NOT doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:10 am 
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Let the record show that I do not know Judge Landis personally. Never met him. Never have spoken with him over the phone. Never have had any communication with him except through this board. The same with Willton.

Note, though, the ease with which I've been called a hypocrite for what, apparently, he thinks is my attitude toward gay rights. Not that he knows is my attitidue from first-hand observation. That he assumes is my attitude. Willton has done the same in times past.

Once you cross a line in human relations by calling someone else you do not know a hypocrite, that line cannot then be recrossed. Words have meaning. I worked in the news business for 47 years, dealing with athletes, entertainers, community activists, cops, union leaders, military commanders, corporate CEOs, educators, bureaucrats, politicians, diplomats, and hundreds of others from ordinary walks of life. And if I learned anything from those years it's that calling another person a hypocrite carries with it a presumption of fundamental dishonesty, and further discussion leads nowhere.

So be it. We move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:31 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Let the record show that I do not know Judge Landis personally. Never met him. Never have spoken with him over the phone. Never have had any communication with him except through this board. The same with Willton.

Note, though, the ease with which I've been called a hypocrite for what, apparently, he thinks is my attitude toward gay rights. Not that he knows is my attitidue from first-hand observation. That he assumes is my attitude. Willton has done the same in times past.

Once you cross a line in human relations by calling someone else you do not know a hypocrite, that line cannot then be recrossed. Words have meaning. I worked in the news business for 47 years, dealing with athletes, entertainers, community activists, cops, union leaders, military commanders, corporate CEOs, educators, bureaucrats, politicians, diplomats, and hundreds of others from ordinary walks of life. And if I learned anything from those years it's that calling another person a hypocrite carries with it a presumption of fundamental dishonesty, and further discussion leads nowhere.

So be it. We move on.

No, Bob. I called you a hypocrite because you made an unbelievably snide and disrespectful comment to me, and then flipped out because I used a cuss word when I told you to back off, accusing me of being disrespectful. Your position on gay rights had nothing to do with me calling you a hypocrite. Your hypocritical actions did.

Now, here comes another observation, based not on your political views, but on the way you've conducted yourself in the course of this discussion: You are cowardly and intellectually dishonest in the way that you debate. Make of that what you will, Bob. I could give (in the interest of preserving your virginal ears) a rat's patooty.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Also please note that Bob didn't choose to humph and pick up his toys and go home yesterday morning, when he made his "conservatives have never engaged in domestic terrorism" argument. He only decided to do that after Willton and I proved him definitively and ludicrously wrong.

Here's a tip for you, Bob: Debating politics is a little more difficult when you're engaged with an actual human being, as opposed to the "liberal" straw men that right-wing radio hosts routinely pillory. And when the actual human being is actually informed on the issue that you're debating, well then, watch out.

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 Post subject: Re: Shootings
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Also please note that Bob didn't choose to humph and pick up his toys and go home yesterday morning, when he made his "conservatives have never engaged in domestic terrorism" argument. He only decided to do that after Willton and I proved him definitively and ludicrously wrong..


For the record, you did no such thing. Using McVeigh as a "conservative" is laughable. Wade you know nothing about, which is why Wilton referred to "one EXPECTS such and such" by his actions.

I'll be more on board when the vitriolic rants, which I like by the way, stop conflating "bigot", "Fox News", "right wing", "homophobes", and "redneck" in every post, and start going say... 50/50 with "MSNBC", "racist", etc.. in the vitriol.

ZM

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