Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:23 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:59 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Are you absolutely sure that its not the Will of God?

I am. It's the will of the Bush Administration. It's clear on the face of this Administration's executive orders.

In the words of Susan B. Anthony, "[t]he religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides with their own desires."


You sound like your convinced, but I assume you spoke to God and he informed you that is was all Bushs' fault? With all of the checks and balances set in place with this government, I find it very hard to believe that one guy, the President, was stirred with so much hate and content that he randomly attacked Iraq for no apparent reason.

Believe you me, many Dems were in approval when the decision was to go to Iraq. The one thing I'm sure of, is that if the war was quick and decisive, those same Dems would be taking the credit for their vigilance. The problem I have with Democrats is that when things get ugly, they can't stand firm and see them through.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:22 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Jeremy wrote:
Quote:
Are you absolutely sure that its not the Will of God?


Yeah.....I am.


But even if I wasn't....there's this crazy thing called separation of church and state. Sarah Palin might want to look that one in all the free time she's going to have after the Republicans get crushed in the election.


The separation between church and state was primarily established to deter radical religious sects from forcing a religion on a body of people, ensuring their right to worship whomever or whatever they called god. But you will deny a leader of this country his right to ask God for help in a situation, ensuring that he was to make the right decision. Frankly, I rather have a man of God in office who will try and do the right thing for God and Country than a self-serving fake Christian that makes decisions based soley on his warped sense of morals and a few scientific research documents. But thats what separates us in our beliefs, the allowable freedoms that are the reason this country is so great.

I can and will argue every post and every day that doing the Will of God is vital in not only the country, but in your own personal life. Many Christians will tell you what's wrong with you, why they are more spiritual than you are, and what they think you should do to "earn" your eternity. I say crap crap crap, I do not stand behind any Christian that proclaims he is better or more deserving of God's grace than anyone. Its all awarded to each of us without cost, simply by asking Jesus to forgive your sins and come into your life. By no means would I force my Christianity down anybody's throat, if you have questions, I'll answer them, with an honest heart.

But this world will end sooner or later, its written in the Bible in Revelations that Jesus is going to return and destroy ALL evil in this world. Signs of His arrival are vividly depicted, tabbing Isreal as the key nation of the end times, movement of all nations towards a one world governmnet to be headed up by the anti-christ, a man whom will be adored by the blinded but persecuted by the believers. Please be sure that you've weighed all the facts and information about what the oldest religious book has to offer.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:24 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Piratefan13 wrote:
You sound like your convinced, but I assume you spoke to God and he informed you that is was all Bushs' fault? With all of the checks and balances set in place with this government, I find it very hard to believe that one guy, the President, was stirred with so much hate and content that he randomly attacked Iraq for no apparent reason.

No, I didn't speak to God, but I can guarantee you that nobody in the Administration spoke to God either about the merits of this war, no matter how much they may claim otherwise. You have to hold men accountable for these decisions, as it is man that makes such decisions, not some higher power.

The only thing that can legitimize a decision to go to war in Iraq is a compelling purpose, and saying that "It's God's will" does not do so, no matter who says it. In fact, in my mind, saying that "it's God's will" de-legitimizes such a decision. See Susan B. Anthony's quote above.

Oh, and I don't doubt that the Bush Administration had a reason. I just don't think it was a legitimate reason, especially given the lack of evidence supporting its purported reason.

Piratefan13 wrote:
Believe you me, many Dems were in approval when the decision was to go to Iraq. The one thing I'm sure of, is that if the war was quick and decisive, those same Dems would be taking the credit for their vigilance. The problem I have with Democrats is that when things get ugly, they can't stand firm and see them through.

Standing firm in this situation is like staying in Houston while Hurricane Ike hit: it may seem brave, but it's not the intelligent thing to do. It's hard to see anything through when there's no logical end in sight, especially when the monetary and human costs of doing so are so huge.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:17 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4238
Location: Zelienople, PA
No. 9 wrote:
And yet, despite the existence of the ALL POWERFUL LEFT, there is no shortage of conservative talk radio hosts and conservative blogs. In fact, I'd go so far as to bet that there are two conservative talk radio hosts for every one liberal radio talk show host...


While this is true, I wonder what your reaction will be when a veto-proof Pelosi/Reid congress with an Obama Presidency pass through, as publicly stated, the Fairness Doctrine. Thus, effectively shutting down those voices and free speech on the airwaves?

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Quote:
Are you absolutely sure that its not the Will of God?


Yeah.....I am.


But even if I wasn't....there's this crazy thing called separation of church and state. Sarah Palin might want to look that one in all the free time she's going to have after the Republicans get crushed in the election.


The separation between church and state was primarily established to deter radical religious sects from forcing a religion on a body of people, ensuring their right to worship whomever or whatever they called god. But you will deny a leader of this country his right to ask God for help in a situation, ensuring that he was to make the right decision. Frankly, I rather have a man of God in office who will try and do the right thing for God and Country than a self-serving fake Christian that makes decisions based soley on his warped sense of morals and a few scientific research documents. But thats what separates us in our beliefs, the allowable freedoms that are the reason this country is so great.

I can and will argue every post and every day that doing the Will of God is vital in not only the country, but in your own personal life. Many Christians will tell you what's wrong with you, why they are more spiritual than you are, and what they think you should do to "earn" your eternity. I say crap crap crap, I do not stand behind any Christian that proclaims he is better or more deserving of God's grace than anyone. Its all awarded to each of us without cost, simply by asking Jesus to forgive your sins and come into your life. By no means would I force my Christianity down anybody's throat, if you have questions, I'll answer them, with an honest heart.

But this world will end sooner or later, its written in the Bible in Revelations that Jesus is going to return and destroy ALL evil in this world. Signs of His arrival are vividly depicted, tabbing Isreal as the key nation of the end times, movement of all nations towards a one world governmnet to be headed up by the anti-christ, a man whom will be adored by the blinded but persecuted by the believers. Please be sure that you've weighed all the facts and information about what the oldest religious book has to offer.



I know that most "true believers" are some of the worst people I know.


I'm a spiritual person, but in no way am I a religious person. I don't go to church because I find it to be hypocritical. I don't trust anyone who claims to be doing "God's work" because there have been so many false prophets.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:40 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5823
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
ZelieMike wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
And yet, despite the existence of the ALL POWERFUL LEFT, there is no shortage of conservative talk radio hosts and conservative blogs. In fact, I'd go so far as to bet that there are two conservative talk radio hosts for every one liberal radio talk show host...


While this is true, I wonder what your reaction will be when a veto-proof Pelosi/Reid congress with an Obama Presidency pass through, as publicly stated, the Fairness Doctrine. Thus, effectively shutting down those voices and free speech on the airwaves?

ZM


If it happens and those voices are shut down, then I'll tip my hat and say that you were right. While I personally don't care for what I consider to be the ugly diatribe from the Hannitys and the Limbaughs on the right and don't care to waste my time listening to Air America on the left - it can be just as petty, ridiculous and ugly - it is political speech and the government should not shut either side down.

The very basis for freedom of speech is to put such speech to public scrutiny. I may disagree with it but that doesn't mean that I have to listen to it. Turn the channel, change the station or cancel a subscription.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:42 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
ZelieMike wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
And yet, despite the existence of the ALL POWERFUL LEFT, there is no shortage of conservative talk radio hosts and conservative blogs. In fact, I'd go so far as to bet that there are two conservative talk radio hosts for every one liberal radio talk show host...


While this is true, I wonder what your reaction will be when a veto-proof Pelosi/Reid congress with an Obama Presidency pass through, as publicly stated, the Fairness Doctrine. Thus, effectively shutting down those voices and free speech on the airwaves?

ZM


Also, No. 9, certainly you can't ignore the difference between preaching to the choir (talk radio) and preaching to the masses (cable tv news).


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5823
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
BBF wrote:
Also, No. 9, certainly you can't ignore the difference between preaching to the choir (talk radio) and preaching to the masses (cable tv news).


For those that can't stand CNN, I suggest that you watch Fox News Channel. However, I'd suggest that anyone who finds Fox to be "fair and balanced" to watch Glen Beck on CNN . . . you'll likely him to your tastes. Sorry, I simply don't buy the cable tv news brainwashing a gullible public argument.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4238
Location: Zelienople, PA
I don't believe in the "gullible masses" concept myself. I also want a full range of voices out there in an open market. The range is what makes one, or the public, able to choose and I feel that the public has pretty much seen the length and breadth of political discourse on cable and radio, and still got their choice in politics.

You can talk about Beck and Hannity, but they are not reporting the news, the cable news and newspapers are, and that is where the biased treatment comes in. You bring up the Rev Wright earlier, and I find that a good example, but not to your point. Yes, Wright was brought to the airwaves, but only after months, and months of ignoring him. The media reporters tried to ignore him as 'unnewsworthy", until the Hillary camp brought it to the fore as she slipped behind.

Contrast that with Palin's pounding within hours after the nomination. A pounding of trash by bloggers that was not vetted by the anchors and news reporters, but swallowed whole and brought to market.. NOW.

That, I think, is the differance we see.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:10 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
ZM surely you must see that Palin was a terrible mistake. They keep her away from reporters almost always. Why? Did you see the Curic interview she did? WOW.

Think about it for a second please. Want her in charge of this country with this financial mess to deal with? Want her in charge, dealing with foreign countries and wars?

Remenber that McCain would be the oldest elected President ever. and he has had skin cancer four times already.

You aren't scared of that possibility? The only saving grace is that she can see Russia from her front porch.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:19 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
BTW, there is no fair and balanced on Fox. They clearly try to control the minds of the masses. When they have a left leaning person on,it is usually someone so weak that they can't even make the argument. They get Palin-like people to present the opposing view.

CNN is fair in most of it's programing, and certainly in it's news programs. A few personalities are left of center but you can get the honest news from CNN. Not even close on Fox.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Substitute2 wrote:
ZM surely you must see that Palin was a terrible mistake. They keep her away from reporters almost always. Why? Did you see the Curic interview she did? WOW.

Think about it for a second please. Want her in charge of this country with this financial mess to deal with? Want her in charge, dealing with foreign countries and wars?

Remenber that McCain would be the oldest elected President ever. and he has had skin cancer four times already.

You aren't scared of that possibility? The only saving grace is that she can see Russia from her front porch.



Sub,

The Conservatives damn sure want her in charge of the country because they've bought in to the "common man" idea hook line and sinker. They want you to believe that Sarah Palin is "just like you" so that you can feel good in voting for her.

Make no mistake, this is no longer the party Ronald Reagan headed up for so many years. Bill Clinton changed the whole game and the country is suffering because of it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:35 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
Jeremy --- Try to remember that it was Ronald Reagan who ran on the idea that government was in the way. He's the guy who gave birth to the idea that we needed de-regulation for business to be able to make things work. It got worse after him but he was the begining of that movement. He must be at least partly held responsiblr for this mess.

As far as Clinton, I don't understand what you mean that he changed the game. Please explain. Do you thimk he was bad for the country? I think he would be easily re-elected today if he could run.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:02 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:19 am
Posts: 1507
I'm always baffled when people defend Reagan.

Once we started losing our manufacturing base (the Federal Reserve is to blame for that) Tricky Dick removed the gold standard. Then Ronnie Reagan's solution to the recession was to de-regulate the economy while wasting heeps of money on the military. The big banks and Wall Street got too much power.

I never cared for Clinton though he supposedly achieved a budget surplus..

http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_ ... -1996.html

Our national debt was Reagan's gift to the future, plainly put. We are still feeling the effects of his bungling. All our economy's problems (dot.com bubble burst, housing bubble, etc.) is directly related to his actions.

I've had it with corporate elites who control our congress. Our congress has failed to take control of the monetary system. They ceded all authority to the private banking industry (Federal Reserve Act.)

I fear the Federal Reserve, Treasury Department, and Congress can not right this sinking ship.

Guys, please do not put your faith in either candidate. They are both members of the CFR, the people who want a North American Union. They want to destroy our country.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Liberalism's finest hour
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:47 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Substitute2 wrote:
Jeremy --- Try to remember that it was Ronald Reagan who ran on the idea that government was in the way. He's the guy who gave birth to the idea that we needed de-regulation for business to be able to make things work. It got worse after him but he was the begining of that movement. He must be at least partly held responsiblr for this mess.

As far as Clinton, I don't understand what you mean that he changed the game. Please explain. Do you thimk he was bad for the country? I think he would be easily re-elected today if he could run.



Clinton started the "common man" movement. Was Clinton an Arkansas redneck? Hell no, the man was very smart. But he would rather act like a hillbilly. So then we got the "guy who can have a beer with" and now we have a "hockey mom" VP candidate who is "one of us."

Look, I don't want "one of us" running the country. I want someone who's smarter than me running the country. I want people with degrees and pedigrees. I don't want a Mayor from some backwater Alaskan town a few minutes away from running the country.

Ollie.....there were military programs that were wastes. But please don't think that we're wasteful people. I can tell you that the Air Force is very frustrated right now because we have flying death traps for tankers and we can't get new ones because we have "hawks" on The Hill who think we're being wasteful. Yet those same "hawks" will defend the most out of date plane we have, the B 52, to death.

We want to more efficient, we really do. But we're hamstrung by special interests on The Hill. It's really frustrating.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits