Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:30 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:21 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4163
Location: Zelienople, PA
Willton wrote:
Blaming the woes of Wall Street on what happened in the 90's totally misses the reason why firms like Bear Sterns, Lehman, AIG, and Merryl fell as hard as they did: they were way too heavily invested in risky financial products, like credit-default swaps and sub-prime mortgage-backed securities. It's what can happen when greed in the marketplace exceeds fear in the marketplace.

.


Why were they there?

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
ZelieMike wrote:
Willton wrote:
Blaming the woes of Wall Street on what happened in the 90's totally misses the reason why firms like Bear Sterns, Lehman, AIG, and Merryl fell as hard as they did: they were way too heavily invested in risky financial products, like credit-default swaps and sub-prime mortgage-backed securities. It's what can happen when greed in the marketplace exceeds fear in the marketplace.

.


Why were they there?

ZM

Why were who where?

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4163
Location: Zelienople, PA
Why were the companies you cite, there. Why were they investing in those types of risky loans?

To substitute, I'm not trying to lay this at any one person's, or admins door. There is plenty of lax oversight to go around in both the Clinton and Bush administrations.

My arguement is primarily that in a free market that this wouldn't have happened, because a free market would not tolerate the development of subprime loans. At least not without the capital to back it up.

There was a reason the banker's motto was 3, 6, and 3 before the FHA was formed, and the government interjected itself into the money markets and started contolling the cost of money in mortgages.

To my mind, all the "deregulation" that is being espoused as "the problem" today, was mostly an attempt to stave off the inevitable posi-scheme that was subprime by allowing the holders of notes to try to develop hedge funds to underwrite the bad notes.

But, that is from an untrained eye point of view.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:28 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
ZM-- I don't claim expertise either. I do know that free markets existed in the 1880s and look what happened. The Age of Robber Barons was the result of government not being involved. It is easy to see why. Those with power and money created monopolies or co-operation so as to artifically set prices higher then the market would have. The result was of course huge profits for the few and much misery for the rest of society.
Enter Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressives. That led to a great deal of government intervention and protection for the average American. Another word for it is REGULATION. Free markets don't account for those able to manipulate them for unfair and unethical purposes. I know many hate to think of it but government is necessary for a free market to continue.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4163
Location: Zelienople, PA
You mean Teddy the Republican POTUS?

Of course government has a role in oversight. One could easily argue that the Robber Barons were the result not of a free market, but as you say, corruption and manipulation.

Again, what was the finanicial institution of that time? A central bank making money that could at its whim, distort the market. The last POTUS who forcefully and emphatically tried to eliminate the central bank and put the free into the market, was McKinely.

I think Teddy decided to stay alive. :D

Teddy actually used government not to regulate, but to eliminate monopolies and to CREATE a freer market where the consumer would benefit.

FDR was the first one to really start heavy regulatory oversight, and most historians will tell you that he only extended the depression long beyond its true length and only war production brought us out of depression.

At least the Robber Barons left behind an oil industry, a steel industry, railroads, boats, ... you name it, they built it and left it behind for us.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Stock Market
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
The real point that I was trying to make is that without government regulation and protection, the free market will be destroyed by the greed of man. So, those who advocate less government open us up to destruction of the very thing that they want to protect and enhance- the free market.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits