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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:43 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Bob, nice to hear from you again.

Does the fact that news departments of the major networks (exception is NBC) are controlled by corporate America have an impact on slant of the news. It is very clear to me that it does. ABC, CBS, and CNN all are at a minimum neutral, leaning Republican. And let's stop the ridiculous fair and balanced BS of Fox. They don't even attempt to hide their bias for everything Conservative. Any time of day you get a steady stream of your stuff.

Radio is probably 90% conservative.

So, that leaves newspapers. And while I read many of them, few other Americans do. Hate to down your source of a pay check, but you know very well how subsriptions are consistently falling. So, if the are for Obama somewhat, it matters much less today then yesterday. They are of less import today and it will only lessen in the future.

So, the perception the the media is librel no longer hold your water. No, my friend (McCain's favorite phrase), if anything it slants your way, the wrong way.

Now, don't get all fired up, let's try to keep it light.


Your subsequent post to the above indicated that you were the "fired up" one as you quite unnecessarily, in your librel (sic) way, abused Bob who had posted a reasoned summary of the situation. Further proof, if proof were needed, that the left cannot sustain reasoned, and reasonable, argument.
However, I actually wished to address the quoted post which uses a rather strange argument, and the quaint- seeming but actually totally disingenuous phrase - "if they are for Obama somewhat". Are you implying that the newspapers are not left-biased by virtue of the fact that (you claim) hardly anyone reads them? Perhaps they don't read them precisely because of their political bias.
I guess we will all find out which is the "wrong" or "right" way come November.

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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:00 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
Further proof, if proof were needed, that the left cannot sustain reasoned, and reasonable, argument.


As someone who will be voting for the Obama/Biden ticket in November and not the McCain/Palin ticket, I take great umbrage to this ill-reasoned overgeneralization. There are pros and cons to both parties' tickets and anyone who cannot acknowledge this suffers from myopia. I have heard the ramblings of some that the US will become a communist or socialist country if Obama wins and I shrug that off to pure stupidity. However, I would never attempt to generalize everyone on the right as holding tight to those beliefs.

As for the media, I my news channel of choice is to watch CNN and listen to CNN on my XM radio. The next time that I hear Glen Beck say anything positive about the left side of the aisle will be the first. Lou Dobbs appears to be an equal opportunity criticizer. John Cafferty is certainly not adverse to going after both Obama and McCain. There are some that appear to lean one way (Campbell Brown certainly seems to favor the Obama ticket) and those that appear to lean the other side.

In baseball, I tend to tune out those fans who constantly complain that their favorite team gets screwed by the referees or the umpires. Yeah, there might be a bad call or two that goes against there team but it goes both ways. Frankly, I find the complaining about the media to be in the same vein. I'll give you an example of one of the many reasons I feel that way. In the last election cycle, I was having dinner with a client of mine who is the CFO of a international corporation HQ'ed in Europe and with offices in the US. He was going to vote for Bush again and acknowledged that he was doing so mainly because he was a Republican and that he did not particularly care for either ccandidate. However, he admitted that he found the accusations of "liberalness" in the media to be amusing. If you recall at the time, the media was bashed by Bush/Cheney/Rove as being unfair in their coverage of Iraq. The CFO told me that the coverage in Europe was far more critical of what was occuring and that Americans were getting a very sanitized version. If the media was simply a mouthpiece for the "Liberal Left," then why is the coveraged sanitized? I honestly can't compare because I've not spent any time in Europe (other than a 10 day vacation in Ireland/Scotland in '05). I just found it interesting that this individual who is Republican and spends significant time in Europe made that observation.

I also tune out those in the media who constantly tell me that they know "the TRUTH." Anyone who has to caveat what they say as being "the TRUTH" is, IMO, attempting to hide something. I try to learn the facts and reach my own conclusions.

My leisurely reading material on the bedstand is The Economist and The New Yorker. If you want some good market based analysis of presidential candidates, The Economist provides some good reading. The New Yorker also provides some well-researched and extremely well-written articles on the political landscape. Its about all I have the extra time for. I'd welcome the opportunity at any time to get into a reasoned, rational debate with anyone about the upcoming elections and I plan on voting from the left.

And, for what it is worth, I find Barack Obama's refusal to choose Hilary Clinton as his running mate to be a far more "maverick" decision than John McCain's selection of Sara Palin. If Obama had selected Clinton, I would have been leaning towards McCain because of the four years of vitriole that we would have with a Clinton so close to the White House. That being written, McCain's selection of Palin may very well have caused me to jump back over to an Obama/Clinton ticket - although I am 99.9% certain that McCain would not have selected Palin if Clinton was Obama's running mate.

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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:18 pm 
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So why did they find it necessary to indulge in their usual character assassination tactics? What has that got to do with your perfectly reasonable assessment?
Socialism is all smoke and mirrors. One could laugh if it were not so detrimental to one's personal level of accomplishment.

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Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - William Shakespeare


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Both sides use character assassination as a tactic. It is the slimy side of politics. Heck, George Bush did it to McCain, a fellow party member in 2000. Remember South Carolina?


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Bertie-- just for the record, you don't really think that the political slant of newspapers has anything to do with people no longer reading them, do you? What is clear even to the Nuttings is that they have to deversify or no longer make money. They own many papers and they all have a very conservative editorial position. They are losing so many subscriptions that they now have bought Seven Springs and their pet money maker, The Pirates.

No, this generation has decided not to waste (in their minds) their time reading papers when they see other easier and faster ways of getting information. So, as Bob from Boston could atest, newspapers have less and less influence today.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:57 pm 
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We can all see if we choose to, that each of us will interpret the news of the day through our own filter. Each person's views are colored by his own positions. No need to argue about it. As I always like to say, you are perfectly correct on expressing your incorrect ideas and opinions.

I know that I'll never get some of you to see the light.

Let me leave you with one more beauty. Carl Rove has yesterday said the McCain has been going to far with the lies and exaggerations about Obama. WOW, how bad does it have to be for him to say that. he is as we all know, the master of the negative. With him making my point, I don't need to add to it.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:01 pm 
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And Rove said that on Fox, who employs him Don't they?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:03 pm 
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What gets me is the constant claim that a candidate is apparently "elitist." Look, if the presidential candidates don't think that they are better than us, then what the fuck are they doing? My God, I would hope that the President is smarter and "more elite" than I am. I don't want a president that would have a beer with me; I want a president that knows what's best for the country.

Unfortunately, being "elitist" is apparently bad in this country, and the GOP apparently uses this to attack Democrats. Apparently, calling out the GOP for issuing untruths labels you a preachy know-it-all and an elitist. Who knew that being smart was a bad thing?

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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:12 am 
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Bertie wrote:
So why did they find it necessary to indulge in their usual character assassination tactics? What has that got to do with your perfectly reasonable assessment?


In all seriousness, to which political party are you referring? If you are suggesting that the Democratic Party has a monopoly on the character assassination game, I could not disagree with you more. Both sides play it with impunity.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:30 pm 
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I do find the "Your guy sucks, mine is great" whines to be hilarious. If only because it IS POTUS hunting season. Gotta have a tough skin to take the job.

Can't go with Obama/Biden. In all seriousness, I don't believe much in the "preparation" arguement for POTUS, or VPOTUS. And, if you listen closely to past POTUS', you will hear them all say the same thing. You can't prepare for the Presidency. You simply must react, learn, deal with it as it happens.

So, to me that means a candidate with some core convictions and hopefully some demonstration of those core convictions under fire in the past. What made Reagan so popular, and hated by the left, was his ability to actually do most of what he promised he would do. What killed King George the 1st, was his flip flopping on a big promise.

So, that said, while I certainly don't believe that Obama will blow up a police station, vote for infanticide, or is a racist, he certainly seems comfortable enough hanging out with those kinds of folks and calling them friends.

In a campaign based on "judgement", that kind of judgement is scary. Rather than espousing his core principals, Obama seems a man intent on muddying what they are by hiding behind "nuance". And, frankly I for one, don't understand Obama-speakyet . Tho' my brother professes to doing so.

His economic policies that he cites as change, at least as I understand them, are nothing more than old, tired, rehashes 1960's "tax your way to prosperity" combined with some serious income redistribution. Again, while I don't find him to be a communist, he certainly is comfortable taking is economic cues from folks who avowadly do believe, strongly, in Marxist/Socialist tenants. What does that mean in a Pelosi/Reid congress? It means my taxes will be going up, way up, and no way do I make $250K.

McCain on the other hand, at least has a history of crossing the isle and bucking his party. Its not fake, its not contrived. He's done it. I don't like some of what he's done. His attempt at Campaign finance reform is downright unconstitutional to my thinking. But, he at least demonstrates an ability to get something done.

Finally, and this isn't necessarily my position, but a take on the country as a whole, the election will come down to one of two outside influences. Either 1) the economy will continue to bumble along, which is great for Obama and Dems in general. They can always run out the "worst economy ever" line, with effect, or 2) Russia continues to flex its newly found muscle, and we have to decide who can best stare Putin in the eye without blinking. That is definately not an Obama favorable.

Meh, we'll see. It might come down to how much it rains that day, and how many dead people can vote in Philly and Chicago! :D

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:09 pm 
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ZM -
You may be right about McCain if we could turn back the clock. I don't think that the current version of McCain is the "maverick." And I believe that the selection of Sara Palin is just the latest example of McCain trying to please a very powerful segment of the Republican Party. If he was truly a "maverick" and willing to buck party demands, I think that he would have gone with Lieberman (that is just my opinion).

McCain was right that this country has never cut taxes when going to war and was likely right to oppose the original tax cuts. That was not a popular view among the Republican base and he has shifted his stance. He is close friends with former Senator Gramm and, from what I understand, Senator Gramm (1) used to be an economic consultant on his staff; (2) is still a consultant on other matters for McCain and (3) Senator Gramm was intimately involved in instituting law which helped deregulate a number of financial industries which are currently on the verge of collapse and, according to my uncle in Albuquerque who is a financial analyst and broker, has led this country to the verge of economic collapse. I am far from confident that McCain's economic policies - whatever they may be - are the answer.

I do believe that Obama has surrounded himself with some pretty heady economic advisors and believe that there are a fair number of wealthy economic specialists who are not predicting the end of a market economy if Obama is elected.

As far as Democratic spending is concerned, I would like to see the budget deficit numbers for the past 8 years, 6 of which involved a Republican Congress.

As far as earmarks are concerned, we've heard McCain say that he would veto any bill that contains earmarks and that he will identify the requestors publically and he will "make them famous." He said that he won't allow any more governmental spending for studying the DNA of black bears. Yet, when Palin was confronted with the fact that the Alaskan Wildlife Commission (or whatever dept it is) requested over $2M to study the mating habits of a particular kind of fish, she stated that the earmark was an "open" request for $$, not a "hidden" request for $$ tied to lobbiests. I may be wrong, but that sounds awfully nuanced to me. Is the McCain position that any earmarks will be vetoed or only those earmarks that are somehow "hidden" and tied to lobbiests? Its my opinoin that McCain is far from the "Straight Talk Express" that he used to be.

McCain is, IMO, currently just another politician. When the experience argument didn't work against Obama, he all but abandoned that argument. When he didn't make much headway with the "Obama is just a celebrity" or "Obama is not God," campaigns, he dropped them. So . . . he took a page out of Obama's playbook. He got himself a celebrity with very little experience and is campaigning on "changing" Washington. It may have been very smart politics but it doesn't mean much else - at least to me.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:01 pm 
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McCain has to have a headache today. This has been a terrible week for him. Just imagine what it means that George Will has gone on record big time against McCain and his thoughts on our economy. That speaks volumns about his chances in November.

Every Sunday morning talk show blasted McCain for his statements this week-- from knee-jerk reactions of wanting to fire the SEC head (who is very respected by most) to his Monday statement the the economy is fundamentally sound.

Unbelieveable.

It's also apparent the the Palin mo is quickly fading as is John. He still can attract a crowd because she's there with him, but fewer and fewer people think she can handle the job if necessary. Just imagine her in control when this economic mess happened. Anyone out there think she could manage the country through this crisis?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: MC CAIN or OBAMA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:04 pm 
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BTW-- what about the flip-flopping by McCain on regulate vs de-regulate for a lifetime. I guess government isn't such a bad thing now.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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