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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:42 pm 
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Too bad they didn't spend more time teaching you how to think for yourself.


To bad yours didn't teach you any respect!


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
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So, you are talking about the radicals since they obviously speak for all Muslims. Well, if that's the case, click HERE


The KKK can call themselves Christians all they want but the Bible states that all men were created equal, oviously the KKK didn't read that passage.


On the other hand the Koran, the "bible" for muslims states:
Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."


Open the Bible at random to any page and you have an excellent chance of finding some atrocity either ordered by God, sanctioned by God, or carried out by God himself. That's the beauty of taking single sentence quotes out of context.


Tell me another meaning for that verse in the Koran, you tell me how that could have been taken out of context.


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Are you talking about the loving God who sent bears to rend little children to pieces for the horrible sin of laughing at a prophets beard?


Another typical liberal anti-faith retort, if you are going to take random stories out of the Bible, then be sure to understand the concept of the death of Jesus on the cross, who sacrificed himself to wash away all of our sins and to act as an intercessor between us and God. Sure there was a ton of things in the Old Testament that caused God to display his wrath. You should have mentioned the flood in Genesis, you know, where God wiped everything off the face of the earth because he was disgusted with it.

The Bible, like the Constitution is a good read, you should try and read it first, then come and talk to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
No, putz, I'll be registering as a Democrat because the winner of the Democratic mayoral primary has become the mayor of Pittsburgh in every election since the 1930s. I would like to have some say in who my mayor is. In the general election I will not vote for a Democrat for mayor or city council on the principle that single party rule is always a bad thing. God knows that Bush and the Republican congress should have convinced any thinking person of that by now.


"Putz"? Is this the type of ad hominem attack you use against those with differing opinions when you're not out changing cities and political parties?

No, it's the type of ad hominem attack I use against putzes who assign motives to me without evidence.

Quote:
Or is that simply a lashing out at something that you're affraid to admit as truth?

No, it's a lashing out at putzes.

Quote:
You're an "independent" democrat. You hate Regan

I VOTED for Reagan.

Quote:
Bush 1

While I did not vote for Bush 1, I rather liked him. He handled the first Gulf War very well, and made a well reasoned decision not to chase the Republican Guard all the way to Baghdad, which I wish his son would have read.

Quote:
Bush 2

Finally you get something right.

[/quote]and any congress controlled by the Republican party.[/quote]
That isn't saying much. There have been so few.

Quote:
We all know where you stand on McCain and Palin. You've gone out of your way to employ your polished form of tactical debate strategies the whole time not once uttering one negative comment about democrats or the left in general. At least PF13 and Willton let you know where they are coming from. I can respect that. It's so obvious you are not even close to being the free thinking political maverick you think you are.

Yes, I get the same thing from my Republican friends. The same friends who teased me 25 years ago by calling me a "poor Republican". Now they think I'm some kind of communist while they vote for nothing but Republicans, and my politics haven't changed a bit.

Quote:
So go ahead, make sure not vote for a democratic mayor, but smirk with delight as you pull that lever for Obama.

sisyphus wrote:
In my opinion..........
In my opinion, your opinions are nothing more than thinly veiled attacks upon the right, by someone professing not to be on the left. Disingenuousness at it's pinnacle.

Thinly veiled? Then I must not be expressing myself very well, as I did not intend that anyone should see my attacks on the right as being veiled at all. I detest what the Republican Party has become. Is that unveiled enough for you?

Apparently you are another one of those black and white Republicans. The kind who thinks that everything can be seen in black and white, and that there is no such thing as grey. Sorry, but it is quite possible to attack the right without being on the left. Or haven't you heard of the center? Of course, since I'm reacting so negatively towards the right, I can't be from the center, because that would mean that the world isn't just black and white, wouldn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:51 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
In my opinion the best case scenario for this falls elections would leave us with Obama in the White House and the Republicans in control of either the Senate or the House. Unfortunately, Republicans seem to be committed to losing even more seats in congress.


Yeah sure, you hope the Repubs grab one of the chambers. I almost believe that. At least Palin refused the bridge. You're trying to sell me one! :lol:

You should have no problem believing that if you believe that Palin refused the bridge. I guess that you believed her when she said this:

"I signed major ethics reforms and I appointed both Democrats and independents to serve in my administration. And I've championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. In fact, I told Congress, thanks but no thanks on that Bridge to Nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, I said, we'd build it ourselves."

Congress killed the bridge to nowhere project in November of 2005, as outlined in this story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/polit ... ref=slogin

Sarah Palin was elected Governor of Alaska, November of 2006, and took office in December.

You wanna tell me again how Palin refused the bridge when Congress killed it 13 months before she took office?

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Yes, you're misreading. You cannot veto more money to the military. Section 8 enumerates the Powers of Congress, and it says, "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years.


Ah, yes, you are correct.

sisyphus wrote:
Feel free to point out how I demeaned the sacrifices of any war hero by insulting George Bush.


I found your "it's okay to be a war hero again" vitriol a flippant choice of wording.

Why? To me it's always okay to be a war hero. To Republicans, it's okay now. It wasn't okay in 2004 when Kerry opposed them, and it wasn't in 2000 when McCain was running against Bush in the primaries.

Quote:
As if you have any right to be picking and chosing when "it's okay to be a war hero again".

It wasn't me who was doing the picking and choosing. It was George Bush's supporters who were doing it.

Quote:
A war hero is always a war hero, unless of course, as you've demonstrated, you're trying to win a political debate.

I guess you're right. When Bush was trying to win, things were different.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Listen, I've debated these points with folks who are a lot smarter than you are, so you're going to have to step it up a bit if you're going to stay in the game here. In other words, no more of your non-sequitor B.S., and no more trying to represent the right wings false anti-liberal propaganda as my own beliefs. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Not a single Iraqi was involved in the attack. Al Qaida was non-existent in Iraq before we invaded. Whatever you'd care to argue, I'm willing to argue it with you if I don't agree. But you cannot link invading Iraq with 9/11, because Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, and letting bin Laden escape to Pakistan to launch this pointless war in Iraq just makes the entire situation stink to high heaven.


Oh so because I don't agree with you then I am stupid?

No, you're stupid because I think that you actually believe the stupid propaganda that you're spouting. I could be wrong, of course. You could be cynically spouting that propaganda without believing it at all.

Quote:
Let me tell you somehing hero, I don't care how smart you think you are, all you are doing is hitting every liberal talking point... in order.

And the pot calls the kettle black.

Quote:
Next you'll be talking about healthcare. You acuse me of pulling my opinions from FOX news, well, everything you say is almost verbatim from CNN and Obama. Your a liberal hiding behind the mask of an independant, I may be stupid but at least I pick a side and fight for it. By the way, while you were in college attaining you intelligence, I was in the military defending your freakin right to spew your anti-American BS.

I honor you for your service.

Feel free to point out exactly what "anti-American BS" I've been spouting.

P.S. - I note that you failed to provide evidence linking Iraq with 9/11.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
And one more I forgot, sorry, senior moment.

Bill Clinton was a draft dodger of sorts, he should have inhaled. LOL
George W. Bush was derelict of duty, not a draft dodger.

No, George was a draft dodger. During the Vietnam War joining a National Guard unit that was extremely unlikely to be deployed to Southeast Asia was a way to dodge the draft, but you usually needed some powerful connections to pull it off.


Sisy
Have you ever served?? Do you know George Bush personally?? Do you have any facts outside of what CNN tells you?

No, I did not serve in the military, primarily because I could not bring myself to trust my government 30 years ago after growing up in the Vietnam era. I tried to join when the first Gulf War broke out, but all the services told me that I was too old at 31.

I do not know George Bush personally, so I'm forced to judge him by his actions.

Feel free to cite the CNN story that called George Bush a draft dodger.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The fact that most Americans have lost their taste for this war on Terrorism disgusts me, I vow to spend the rest of my life advocating for those that were lost, in any capacity I can. I didn't know one of any of those Americans that died, but they were all my brothers and sisters, whether they were black or white or whatever. Just ask any American citizen old enough to have been around on Dec 7th 1941.

First of all, we aren't in a war on terrorism. Terrorism is a tactic. You cannot fight a tactic. The phrase "war on terrorism" makes about as much sense as "war on drugs", and both are garnering similar results. We are at war with Muslim Fundamentalist terrorists, and the decision to invade Iraq pushed that war to the back burner.


Typical Liberal response.. deny, defer, create an idiotic analogy

Feel free to point out anything that is factually inaccurate in my post.

I have the feeling that the silence is about to become deafening.

No, it probably won't. You'll probably just ignore all my question and continue calling me "un-American".

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:11 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
You can say many nasty things about terrorists, but calling them cowards is idiotic. They go to certain death to further their misguided beliefs. Though they are despicable for their choice to target civilians, that is not the act of the coward.


So I am sensing a tone of respect for their tactics?

No, you are imagining a tone of respect for their tactics, as you managed to overlook such words as "misguided" and "despicable".

Quote:
They are COWARDS!!

You served in the military. I assume that means that you were willing to die for your beliefs if necessary. The terrorists are willing to die for their beliefs, and that death is a certainty. That is not cowardice.

Quote:
Why don't they stand face to face with an American soldier?

Because they'd lose.

Quote:
The act of targeting civilians is a by every right cowardice.

Was the pilot of the Enola Gay a coward?

Quote:
Dude, its better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Advice that you would do well to follow.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
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Yep, they sure did. The problem with your point is that the Iran/Iraq war ended in 1988. Back when Reagan was President. Back when Reagan removed Iraq from America's list of nations that support terrorism. Back when the Reagan administration was trying to claim that it was IRAN that used those chemical weapons. Back before the first Gulf War. By your logic, we should invade Germany. After all, they used WMDs in WWI.

So now we go to war with Iraq to eliminate the threat from weapons that they hadn't had for over 10 years, and that they couldn't deliver to the United States even if they did have them, and we leave the perpetrator of 9/11 to flee to Pakistan, our "ally" in the war on terror, and what will the result be once we bring the troops home? A fundamentalist Shiite Iraq. In other words, since the U.S. invaded Iraq, Iran gets to win the Iran/Iraq war 20 years after it ended and without risking a single soldier. Congratulations George Bush. Too bad you didn't listen to your Daddy.


Do you actually make a point here?

I made several. Sorry you missed them.

Quote:
Don't you worry about Iran, once McCain gets elected, that situation will get cleaned up.

With what army?

You want to see the Iranian government overthrown? Pass legislation requiring the doubling of fuel efficiency standards over the next 10 years, pour money into non-carbon energy research, and wait a short while. Iran's government can no longer survive oil prices of $50/barrel or so.

Quote:
No we won't attack Germany because they don't have a mentally challenged loose cannon at the helm like Iran or North Korea.

That zipping sound you just heard was my point flying past your head.

Quote:
Dude, I thought you were intelligent, you know, you've debated with "guys a lot smarter than me." Why don't you prove to me that IRAQ DIDN"T have the WMD's, just because we didn't find them inside his country doesn't mean he didn't have enough time to get them out while we were satisfying all you liberals by imposing sanctions on Saddam. Like he was going to be disciplined by the weak ass UN. Dude, I've debated with guys much smarter than you...

I don't need to prove that Iraq didn't have WMDs. George Bush proved that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

But I'll be glad to prove to you that Iraq didn't have WMDs if you'll do one thing for me first. Prove that there is not a live purple dinosaur living in my closet.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Too bad they didn't spend more time teaching you how to think for yourself.


To bad yours didn't teach you any respect!

Respect is something that you earn, not something that you receive as a gift.

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"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
So, you are talking about the radicals since they obviously speak for all Muslims. Well, if that's the case, click HERE


The KKK can call themselves Christians all they want but the Bible states that all men were created equal, oviously the KKK didn't read that passage.


On the other hand the Koran, the "bible" for muslims states:
Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."


Open the Bible at random to any page and you have an excellent chance of finding some atrocity either ordered by God, sanctioned by God, or carried out by God himself. That's the beauty of taking single sentence quotes out of context.


Tell me another meaning for that verse in the Koran, you tell me how that could have been taken out of context.

To do that I would need the full context. I don't own a copy of the Koran. Do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Are you talking about the loving God who sent bears to rend little children to pieces for the horrible sin of laughing at a prophets beard?


Another typical liberal anti-faith retort,

For your information, a vast majority of liberals are Christians.

Quote:
if you are going to take random stories out of the Bible, then be sure to understand the concept of the death of Jesus on the cross, who sacrificed himself to wash away all of our sins and to act as an intercessor between us and God. Sure there was a ton of things in the Old Testament that caused God to display his wrath. You should have mentioned the flood in Genesis, you know, where God wiped everything off the face of the earth because he was disgusted with it.

If you're going to take random verses out of the Koran, I can certainly take random stories from the Bible. So tell me, how do you reconcile the concept of a loving, merciful god with a god that sends bears to rend little children to pieces for laughing at some guy's beard or bald head?

Quote:
The Bible, like the Constitution is a good read, you should try and read it first, then come and talk to me.

I daresay that I've probably read the Bible a lot more thoroughly than you have, including reading it from cover to cover multiple times. If you'd care to challenge me to a test of Bible knowledge I'd be glad to take you up on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:39 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
No, it's a lashing out at putzes.


There you go again.

Everytime you resort to your petulant name calling, it only reinforces the notion that you are pretty much sensationalizing everything you type. Anyone as truly convicted as you pretend to be, throwing around words like "putz" and "dipshit", would have had their teeth punched down their throat a long time ago. The internet was made for paper tigers like yourself. The fact that you're still able to spout your vulgarities is all the proof I need to form my opinion on not only your words, but also you character.

As Berties tagline says, "Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - William Shakespeare"

You fail all five and would be asked to leave any civil debate.

Quote:
While I did not vote for Bush 1, I rather liked him. He handled the first Gulf War very well, and made a well reasoned decision not to chase the Republican Guard all the way to Baghdad, which I wish his son would have read.


So after voting for Reagan, Dukakis was the next logical step? Or did you vote for Fritz as well? Oh wait, I have $1 that says it was Ron Paul.

Reagan: For welfare cuts, reduce taxes across the board, privitize SS, Major defense spending, AIDS is biblical, no gun control, Iran Contra (?), not considered environmental friendly, school choice and mandatory prayor, no to legalization of illicit drugs, supported death penalty, supply side trickle down economics. And edited to add that he was against abortion.

So which of these did you vote for him on?

Putting on a t-shirt that says, "I'm Brad Pitt", doesn't make me Brad Pitt. Much to my wife's chagrin.

Quote:
That isn't saying much. There have been so few.


A simple "yes" answer will suffice.

Quote:
......and my politics haven't changed a bit.


Hey, we agree again!

Quote:
Thinly veiled? Then I must not be expressing myself very well, as I did not intend that anyone should see my attacks on the right as being veiled at all. I detest what the Republican Party has become. Is that unveiled enough for you?


Then quit using your purported 25 year old connection to Reagan to position yourself as someone whose words regarding the right should somehow be held in a higher regard.

Quote:
Apparently you are another one of those black and white Republicans. The kind who thinks that everything can be seen in black and white, and that there is no such thing as grey. Sorry, but it is quite possible to attack the right without being on the left. Or haven't you heard of the center? Of course, since I'm reacting so negatively towards the right, I can't be from the center, because that would mean that the world isn't just black and white, wouldn't it?


I'm stupid (hey, that's three things we agree on now!!!). I don't know what the heck you're trying to say here. If you're insinuating that I'm both fiscally and socially conservative, then you're right. I say that with pride, and I don't resort to name calling.

Have a great day.


Last edited by Argentum on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:42 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:54 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
It wasn't me who was doing the picking and choosing. It was George Bush's supporters who were doing it.


Actually it was swift boat veterans. Your beef is with them, not George Bush.


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:19 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
You wanna tell me again how Palin refused the bridge when Congress killed it 13 months before she took office?


From your own linked source:

Quote:
The change will not save the federal government any money. Instead, the $442 million will be turned over to the state with no strings attached, allowing lawmakers and the governor there to parcel it out for transportation projects as they see fit, including the bridges should they so choose.


Congress may have taken the wording out of the funding proposal, but the fact remains that the money went to the state, to be used as Alaska saw fit. If you really want to get down to it, most of that money was gone before Palin was even elected, spent on other projects by her predecessor.

But all that doesn't change the fact that Palin, acting as Governor, made the decision to officially scrap the bridge project. That's one decision more than Obama has been forced to make in his entire three years running for President, oops, I mean in his three years as a junior Senator.

There's a lot of gray (being from the "center" you can appreciate this I'm sure) area here. She may, operative word being "may", have shown some support for the bridge when she was running for governor, but she ultimately made the decision, there's that word again that the Obama supporters wish to sweep under the rug, to cancel it when the cost became too high. To me that's the real meat of this story. You can attack the means all that you want, but the end result is exactly what you expect from a governor.

There is really no political hay to be made here. You may wish to move on to something else. (pssssst, I heard her 17 year old unmarried daughter may be pregnant, check it out)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/675/

http://wingod.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/07/1838917-tracking-down-the-palin-bridge-to-no-where-flip-flop


Last edited by Argentum on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:39 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I don't own a copy of the Koran. Do you?


I do, we study it at work on occasion. It's online as well. Perhaps you should give it a read sometime?


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:40 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Respect is something that you earn, not something that you receive as a gift.


You're on a roll, that's another thing we agree on!


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 Post subject: Re: Vice Presidential Nominee Sarah Palin
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:44 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I daresay that I've probably read the Bible a lot more thoroughly than you have, including reading it from cover to cover multiple times. If you'd care to challenge me to a test of Bible knowledge I'd be glad to take you up on it.


You may have read the Bible, but anyone who has ever studied it would never make such a claim. There are about 20,000 Christian denominations the world over, all professing to have the truth. Which one do you belong to, or, as I suspect, are you number 20,001?


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