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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
I know that being a journalist, you have many things at your finger tips. I wonder if you took a speed reading course in order to find and then read all of those articles.

You'll have to give me a couple of weeks to consume it all.

You also are aware that the press always looks to make stories where they sometimes don't actually exist. I'm not saying that they are telling untruths, but they need to sensationalize and stretch things to fill their number of lines in their columns. I'm sure you don't do that.

What I meant was that many of these things have nothing to do with running the country. Just as W's drinking in his youth and drug use wasn't a facter in his running the country. I mean the fact that he never left the country when in the military and their was serious question as to the time he served in the reserves that daddy got him into.

Remember another thing Bob, W was ask to name the President of Pakistan during the campaign, and he admitted that he had no idea. Turned out to be an UNIMPORTANT country in America's future didn't it?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:33 pm 
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This election figure to see a lot of younger voters. Somehow I don't think younger voters are going to care as much about McCain's time in Hanoi as those in their 40s and 50s.

I really think it's going to backfire on McCain.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Location: Hingham, MA
Sub, you're right; I do have a lot of resources at my fingertips. But then, I should. I've been at this work for a long time.

You're right again that the news media seek to sensationalize and make up stories. But you are wrong that they need to. They don't need any such thing. They choose to. And you know what? It's killing them. Half the population is conservative, and conservatives don't appreciate being told that their country, their values, and their candidates suck. After a while, they stop subscribing. Or, in the case of TV, watching. As circulation and viewership drop, advertisers cut back. Revenue declines. Publishers and editors are fired. Reporters and photographers are laid off.

Meanwhile, people by the millions turn to the Internet for news. There, at least, they can find balance.

There's an old adage: When you find yourself in a deep hole; stop digging. But not the news media. Their instinct is: "So, you don't like what we're reporting? Well, screw you; here's some more!"

Not the way I learned to practice journalism, which was to marshal the facts, seek comment from responsible sources on each side of an issue, and let the chips fall where they may.

As for whether W could name the president of Pakistan: So what? Didn't keep him from being elected twice, did it? Didn't stop him from forming a strategic alliance with Pakistan when the time came. I imagine you won't like my saying this, but even bringing that up is typical of liberal behavior: changing the subject when you're falling behind.

We were discussing Barack Obama.

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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:47 am 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
The point that I tried so poorly to make was that anyone running for president, or for that matter any public office, will have his complete history revealed. Obamma is going though that right now. No one, certainly not me, wants someone revealing all about themselves. Maybe even some conservatives (Sen. Craig) have a few things that they would like to keep private.

In terms of flip-flopping, they all do it. To get your party's nomination you must convince the base you are one of them. To win the general election, you must move to the center. Our country almost always elects centerists (sp?) as president. Clinton was very much a centerist, but only after he felt our pain and was nominated. So, Democrats and Republicans alike try to attract the middle. Only other way to win is to spread hate and lies about your opponent like the man of the day, Rove. Make them hate the other guy.

If only we could start dealing with the issues. As long as we continue to deal with destroying the character of the other guy, we will never get to solving Americas problems.

That's where Obamma shines.

End this war.
Enable us to get health care like the rest of the world
Get us away from oil as much and as quickly as possible
Fix social security
Fix education

These are issues that you and I most probably disagree on, but at least we should be discussing them and working for a solution. Instead we search for any small inconsistantcy to try to show that the other guy is the wrong guy.

ELECT ME CAUSE HE WOULD BE MUCH WORSE.

What a country.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:55 am 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
As far as developing an alliance with Pakistan, wow.
We paid they billions to not be our enemy. They took the weapons and money, and still hate us. They also have been the biggest problem in getting Americans killed in Afganistan. Why are we paying for that? Hell, they're way up there on the list of countries to be concerned about. Yet, we continue to buy them off, just like we have in Saudia Arabia. It works in the short term, but just like in Iran (remember the Shah) they eventually become another enemy. The only way to solve this issue is to find the root cause of the problem (not make one up) and then sit down and work out a compromise with them that we can both live with.

The saber rattling of the Bush types doesn't work. When will we learn another approach is required if we want to live in peace?

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Location: Hingham, MA
Sub, I agree with some of what you say, with notable exceptions:

Please cite chapter and verse, showing how Karl Rove has been a spreader of hate and lies. Presumably, that's what the news media have led you to believe; where else would you come up with the idea? But that doesn't make it so. I work in the news media at a high level; I read what they report every day. They despise this administration. Literally, their antipathy knows no bounds. You want a discussion on spreading hatred and lies, I'll have it with you any day. But it doesn't start with Karl Rove.

Iraq? That conflict will end when the Iraqis are capable of managing 100 percent of their own security. And that means years, so you might as well get used to the idea. Here's a news flash: Barack Obama is NOT going to pull us out of Iraq, no matter what he says to the contrary. Assuming he is elected president, he won't take the risk of withdrawing only to have the situation revert back to what it was right after Saddam Hussein's regime fell. Put yourself in his place: Would you want to deal with the backlash that would cause here at home? All that effort, money, and loss of life -- for naught? You'd be guaranteeing yourself a one-term presidency, and a landslide victory for the other party in the next election.

Here's another factor: There is a real possibility that we'll find ourselves at war with Iran in the not too distant future. Currently, our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have Iran flanked on both sides. We should just walk away and give up that advantage? No, we're going to be in Iraq until we are ready to leave, and it doesn't matter how many Iraqi leaders say they want us out.

Healthcare: Our system already is the best. People in countries with nationalized systems (Canada, Britain) come here for treatment because their own have let them down. Why would we want to weaken it by lowering our standards to those of the rest of the world?

Oil: As I've posted here before, we are not going to replace the oil standard for many generations to come. So wishing it away is pointless. Solar, tidal, and wind power and car engines that run on hydrogen, combined, can't replace oil. People who claim that drilling our way out of dependence on oil isn't possible are full of crap.

And Pakistan? You do what you have to do in fighting a fanatical enemy like radical Islam. To answer your question, we're paying "for that" because no one else will. Most of the other countries of the free world either lack the will to help us or else their governments have made the calculation that the more we're bloodied, the better it is for their strategic interests.

One would expect that Britain, Canada, and Australia would stand with us, and they have. But even they have their limits. To me, it's interesting that the countries formerly behind the Iron Curtain -- where people know all too well what it's like to live in terror -- are about the only others that didn't have to be begged for their help.

You get peace when your enemy drops to his knees and begs for it, not by exchanging polite words across a negotiating table. When you leave your enemy with any hope of staging a comeback, you might have quiet but you don't have peace.

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If you think nobody notices you and you're all alone, try not paying your bills.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:55 pm 
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I would agree that our health care is the best in the world. That is not the issue. The isuue is that this health care is not available to everyone. I would contend that the drug companies are at the center of the mess. They have just about every MD in their pockets. It is insane the mount of drugs that doctors prescribe while ignoring other possible avenues of treatment that could lesser the dependence on drug treatment. I won't go into details, but my senior parents are prime examples of this type of medical treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:08 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I would agree that our health care is the best in the world. That is not the issue. The isuue is that this health care is not available to everyone. I would contend that the drug companies are at the center of the mess. They have just about every MD in their pockets. It is insane the mount of drugs that doctors prescribe while ignoring other possible avenues of treatment that could lesser the dependence on drug treatment. I won't go into details, but my senior parents are prime examples of this type of medical treatment.


I cannot possibly disagree more. Yes, access to care is a problem. No, the drug companies aren't the cause of that problem. Further, your statement about having the MD's in their pocket is far from the truth. In fact, at most medical centers, doctors don't even so much as carry around pens with drug names on them anymore, to prevent that very situation.

Further, having the government provide healthcare is the worst possible solution I can conceive of, and I, for one, will be the first to leave the medical field if that is to happen. However, I'm not going to have that argument on this board, as I like you guys too much to raise it.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:15 pm 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
Az -- see what you,ve gone and done. You're really pretty good at lighting the wick and then running from it. Well now, where are we going to go from here?

Bob I have much to say to you but no time right now. I'll be back later when I'm done reading your list of reading material and watching Fox News for my fair and balanced presentation. My honey is taking me out to eat.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:12 pm 
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I didn't run away. See above. Just good clean fun. LOL. I must disagree with BBF. That just simply hasn't been my experience. Drug companies and big insurance companies are driving the health field. Not the doctors unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
AZ--
You should know by now that I'm just pulling your chain. I also enjoy this because so far no one has gotten angry. Hope it stays that way.

I do have some experience with public life as I served two four year terms on my city council. I have a small amount of the press and their agenda. It's a whole lot different from the decision-makers (Bushism) perspective. Changes your take on what elected people try to do. Wheeling is a small town in the rust belt, so you can imagine the difficulties.

Sub

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Speak for yourself.. I'm mad as heck!!

Just kidding.. we have to entertain ourselves with this friendly banter because our team stinks!

By the way, Sub, we go to Moundsville now and then to visit the Palace of Gold (Hare Krishna place.) I enjoy visiting their temple, eating their vegetarian food, walking the grounds.. it's like visiting India for a day.


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 Post subject: Re: John McCain ad.....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
Pretty neat Ollie-- lived here most of my life and have never been to the temple. People say it's worth a visit, I should go.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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