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 Post subject: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Great work by TSA agents, searching likely suicide bombers:

Image

Image

I don't know about you, but I would feel a lot better flying without passengers like this being on the plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:01 am 
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These got me...
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this is kind of like the Quayle era,a lot to chose from.unfortunately,this era will be around longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:54 am 
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Roberto:

The two pictures I posted are actual, genuine shots of TSA agents searching passengers. Your postings are pretty funny, no doubt, but compare those to the real photos I posted. The fact that the TSA is searching the nun and the 90-year old guy shows that they are insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:39 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Roberto:

The two pictures I posted are actual, genuine shots of TSA agents searching passengers. Your postings are pretty funny, no doubt, but compare those to the real photos I posted. The fact that the TSA is searching the nun and the 90-year old guy shows that they are insane.


the truly insane part is that they are only following orders.
uh-oh.
everybody start practicing : Sieg Heil!

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:15 am 
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RobertoParker wrote:
Sieg Heil!


Isn't TSA operated by an Israeli company? :? :? :? :? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:50 am 
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You mean Homeland Security (I hate the name BTW) contracted this stuff out and I'm to enjoy the irony?

Or, am I missing the joke Az?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:38 pm 
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No joke. I was told the company in overseeing airport security was an Israeli firm. I could be wrong. Would be interested to know the whole story. :shock: :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
No joke. I was told the company in overseeing airport security was an Israeli firm.

Most TSA agents are federal employees.

http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/a9tsa.aspx

The TSA does contract some work, so I certainly believe that a private company can be involved in the process at some locations.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:35 pm 
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It is my understanding that the Israeli company is overseeing the TSA operation. Perhaps it is in an advisory role.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Roberto:

The two pictures I posted are actual, genuine shots of TSA agents searching passengers. Your postings are pretty funny, no doubt, but compare those to the real photos I posted. The fact that the TSA is searching the nun and the 90-year old guy shows that they are insane.


Come on now, nuns have always been known for their violence and love of bombs.

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:55 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Roberto:

The two pictures I posted are actual, genuine shots of TSA agents searching passengers. Your postings are pretty funny, no doubt, but compare those to the real photos I posted. The fact that the TSA is searching the nun and the 90-year old guy shows that they are insane.


Come on now, nuns have always been known for their violence and love of bombs.


and those leg braces that older man is wearing are clearly made of C4.


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oh let's just get it over with,where do you go to get the barcode....

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:30 am 
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Bucfan was miffed at the ridiculous rules and procedures for air travel three years ago, when he tried to board a plane from Arizona with an unopened container of Jif peanut butter. The agents told me that I could not bring the peanut butter onto the plane.

Okay, let's see. How many hijackers were 46-year old fathers boarding a plane with his 15-year old son, and who took control of the plane with peanut butter? Why, zero.

The criticism of the current TSA program is that it is a bureaucratic process, more concerned about things (no shampoo, peanut butter, take off your shoes, etc.) than people. As the critics of the current process have noted, suicide murderers and attempted murderers use previously-unused methods - box cutters, followed by shoes, followed by underwear bomb, followed by a printer cartridge.

The only one that was stopped before the flight took off? The printer cartridge, based upon intelligence information and not on an obsession with what a passenger is bringing onto the plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:07 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Bucfan was miffed at the ridiculous rules and procedures for air travel three years ago, when he tried to board a plane from Arizona with an unopened container of Jif peanut butter. The agents told me that I could not bring the peanut butter onto the plane.

Okay, let's see. How many hijackers were 46-year old fathers boarding a plane with his 15-year old son, and who took control of the plane with peanut butter? Why, zero.

The criticism of the current TSA program is that it is a bureaucratic process, more concerned about things (no shampoo, peanut butter, take off your shoes, etc.) than people. As the critics of the current process have noted, suicide murderers and attempted murderers use previously-unused methods - box cutters, followed by shoes, followed by underwear bomb, followed by a printer cartridge.

The only one that was stopped before the flight took off? The printer cartridge, based upon intelligence information and not on an obsession with what a passenger is bringing onto the plane.


to be fair,the peanut butter situation was probably do to possible nut allergy concerns.

i couldn't give a valid critique of TSA procedure, as this is yet another reason to never get on a cigar tube with wings.

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:16 am 
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So Bucfan, you would wave anyone through who was dressed in a Nun's habit would you?

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:47 am 
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In the case of the TSA we should be doing what the Israelis do. We need well trained officers looking for behaviors associated with criminal acts rather than poorly trained people searching for items. Its alot easier to disguise an item than it is to disguise a person's intent.

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
So Bucfan, you would wave anyone through who was dressed in a Nun's habit would you?

Not overstating this at all, are we, Bertie.

No, I would not "wave them through." Your hypothetical is the equivalent of my stating that you are favoring body cavity searches. See, I can play the "overstate the issue" game as well.

But my point, as supported by the photos, is that the actual level of physical searching is unreasonable in terms of who is searched, and how. As for the nun, and all other passengers, I would pass them through the metal detector. That way, hijackers cannot put potentially dangerous weapons in their custody and then retrieve them.

However, I would not waste rescources groping a 65-year old nun. I would spend that energy questioning passengers and gauging their reaction to find out who triggers suspicion. Far, far less groping and "peanut butter stealing," and much more relevant information.

25-year old Middle Eastern male traveling from Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, to New York DOES NOT equal a 65-year old caucasion nun going from Des Moines to Long Beach.

Does anybody disagree with that?


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
In the case of the TSA we should be doing what the Israelis do. We need well trained officers looking for behaviors associated with criminal acts rather than poorly trained people searching for items. Its alot easier to disguise an item than it is to disguise a person's intent.

Bingo.

100% agreed. And the manner in which the Israeli airport personnel conduct their pre-flight screenings can be learned by TSA agents and implemented here.

Do we recall the series of suicide bombings in Israel that Hussein was funding? Literally once a week, some market place was being blown up. But guess what ... not once did such murders occur at an Israeli airport.

Why? The homicide bombers would have been detected by the questioning.

First, the agents look for those who merit further investigation. It is NOT based solely on country of origin, destination, travel history, travel into or out of countries with a known history of terrorism, age, gender, or ethnicity. However, all of those factors are taken into account.

Then, the person subject to questioning is asked a series of generally easy-to-answer questions ... as long as the person is not lying or trying to tell a false tale, that is.

"What did you visit?" "Where did you stay?" "What room number?" "Who is meeting you at the airport?" "Where did you park?" "How much per day is that parking?" "How did you pay for the ticket?" "Where do you work?" "What floor is your office on?"

Try to make up answers and you will be caught. Pass the interrogation, and security takes the passenger to the front of the metal detector.

And oh yeah ... the metal detector is basically the only physical screening done.


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:56 pm 
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We need to tell the airlines to go to hell and start travelling by train. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
In the case of the TSA we should be doing what the Israelis do. We need well trained officers looking for behaviors associated with criminal acts rather than poorly trained people searching for items. Its alot easier to disguise an item than it is to disguise a person's intent.

Bingo.

100% agreed. And the manner in which the Israeli airport personnel conduct their pre-flight screenings can be learned by TSA agents and implemented here.

Do we recall the series of suicide bombings in Israel that Hussein was funding? Literally once a week, some market place was being blown up. But guess what ... not once did such murders occur at an Israeli airport.

Why? The homicide bombers would have been detected by the questioning.

First, the agents look for those who merit further investigation. It is NOT based solely on country of origin, destination, travel history, travel into or out of countries with a known history of terrorism, age, gender, or ethnicity. However, all of those factors are taken into account.

Then, the person subject to questioning is asked a series of generally easy-to-answer questions ... as long as the person is not lying or trying to tell a false tale, that is.

"What did you visit?" "Where did you stay?" "What room number?" "Who is meeting you at the airport?" "Where did you park?" "How much per day is that parking?" "How did you pay for the ticket?" "Where do you work?" "What floor is your office on?"

Try to make up answers and you will be caught. Pass the interrogation, and security takes the passenger to the front of the metal detector.

And oh yeah ... the metal detector is basically the only physical screening done.

There's one small problem: administrative cost. While I agree that behavioral screening should be implemented in favor of mere broad-based invasive searching, you have to realize that implementing such a policy will likely be more expensive than our current regime.

First, agents must be trained for such a process, which I'm sure is not cheap. Second, in order for such training to be useful, the candidates to be such agents will likely need a higher aptitude for learning than what is likely acceptable for an average TSA agent. This makes the pool of candidates smaller, which in turn raises the cost of finding such candidates. Third, once found and trained, such agents can likely demand a higher salary than what is provided to an average TSA agent.

Add all of this up, and you likely have a regime that, while less obtrusive, will be more costly to implement, especially in the short run. Given the current state of affairs with the budget defecit, the national debt, and the national cry for spending cuts and reduced size of government, convincing Congress or the Administration to implement this new regime is going to be a tough sell. This is especially true in light of the fact that we have not had a major incident since 9/11, which would indicate that the current regime is working.

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 Post subject: Re: Good to know that TSA is working hard to keep travelers safe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:54 pm 
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I just saw this on Concurring Opinions, and it's histerical and totally appropriate for this thread. Apparently law professors regain their sense of humor after leaving private practice.

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi ... ition.html

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