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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:28 pm 
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Willton:

You are being absolutely dishonest in presenting Cat Stevens as being a victim of media overstatement. Really, it is sickening to see you so misstate what happened.

Stevens can deny making the statements, but here is what he actually said, in a televised interview:

ONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.

So do me the favor of not forcing me to read your justification and support for Yusuf Islam. You are wrong about what he said, and are wrong in claiming that it was perfectly fine to feature him at a rally.


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:46 pm 
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More regarding Yusuf Islam's appearance - this from somebody whose comments actually matter.

November 02, 2010

Rushdie: Stewart's Cat Stevens stance 'depressing'

The presence of the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens' was a dissonant note for some, who find it hard to forgive Yusuf Islam's backing calls for the death of the author Salman Rushdie in 1989. Islam has since denied he said these things, but they're pretty clear in the record, and he's never apologized for them.

Among those unhappy to see Islam on stage was Rushdie, who e-mailed Standpoint's Nick Cohen:

I've always liked Stewart and Colbert but what on earth was Cat Yusuf Stevens Islam doing on that stage? If he's a "good Muslim" like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar then I'm the Great Pumpkin. Happy Halloween.

He later added:

I spoke to Jon Stewart about Yusuf Islam's appearance. He said he was sorry it upset me, but really, it was plain that he was fine with it. Depressing.

So still sticking with your "Oh, Islam didn't mean it" and "Bucfan is misstating the situation", Willton?


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Hey, he would not necessarily murder Rushdie personally, unless of course he was in an Islamic nation and a judge had ordered the death.

A wonderful and peaceful man to include in a rally.


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:03 pm 
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From Steven's Blog:
Quote:
Because of imaginary scenarios set by courthouse TV interviewers, in 1989 I was drawn into making stupid and offensive jokes about Rushdie on a program called, ‘Hypotheticals’; however they were meant to lighten the moment and raise a smile – as good ol’ British sense of humor occasionally is known to do – unfortunately for me…it didn’t.

In 1989, during the heat and height of the Satanic Verses controversy, I was silly enough to accept appearing on a program called ‘Hypotheticals’ which posed imaginary scenarios by a well-versed (what if…?) barrister, Geoffrey Robertson QC. I foolishly made light of certain provocative questions. When asked what I’d do if Salman Rushdie entered a restaurant in which I was eating, I said, “I would probably call up Ayatollah Khomeini”; and, rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author, I jokingly said I would have preferred that it’d be the “real thing”.

Criticize me for my bad taste, in hindsight, I agree. But these comments were part of a well-known British national trait; a touch of dry humor on my part. Just watch British comedy programs like “Have I Got News For You” or “Extras”, they are full of occasionally grotesque and sardonic jokes if you want them! On one particular broadcast of “Have I got News…” Ian Hislop, the editor of British satirical magazine Private Eye, personally called me “a Shi’ite” (doesn’t take too long to work out with a twist of an English accent what he meant by that).

Certainly I regret giving those sorts of responses now. However, it must be noted that the final edit of the program was made to look extremely serious; hardly any laughs were left in and much common sense was savagely cut out. Most of the Muslim participants in the program wrote in and complained about the narrow and selective use of their comments, surreptitiously selected out of the 3-hour long recording of the debate. But the edit was not in our hands. Balanced arguments were cut out and the most sensational quotes, preserved.


http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20

Whether or not Stevens was taken out of context or not, given what he has written most recently, reasonable people can sanely conclude that he has backtracked from his original statements. As I said earlier, it is clear to me that Stevens regrets making the comments regarding Rushdie. I'm willing to forgive a man for making foolish comments that he later regrets. I'm sorry that you do not have that capacity.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Whether or not Stevens was taken out of context or not ...

Cowardly.

I posted the YouTube clip showing his statement.

Shortly thereafter, he said that he affirmed his statements (about murdering an author who expressed opposing views).

A public relations shill then said something to the effect of, "You know, wishing murder on a writer for setting forth opposing views is probably not a good idea," at which point the scumbag liar Yusuf Islam denied making the statements.

So as between you, me, and the guy who actually has something involved in this issue - Rushdie - I will go with Rushdie. Rushdie has made it clear that Islam has lied about making the statements, and never apologized for making them. He was also disappointed that the nutjob Islam was part of the great celebration of the "little guy," err, other than the ones who should be murdered, I mean.

Willton wrote:
reasonable people can sanely conclude that he has backtracked from his original statements.

See above. The opinion that matters more than any other here is Rushdie's. He specifically refutes your claim that Islam has backed away from his statement or taken any steps that would remotely qualify as an apology.

So let me think ... Willton says "all good" about nutjob's wishing murder on somebody for expressing differing religious/political views. The subject of the threat says, "Uh, not so fast." I accept the comments of the person subject to the threat.

Willton, you are adopting a patently unreasonable position in defending Stewart's decision to feature nutjob, err, Yusuf "I will murder you!!" Islam.

Willton wrote:
I'm willing to forgive a man for making foolish comments that he later regrets.

Who the fuck are you to "forgive" him for these statements?

Such forgiveness, or lack thereof, belongs to Rushdie, not you. What a pompous ass, that you think you can "forgive" his comments.

Willton wrote:
I'm sorry that you do not have that capacity.

As detailed extensively throughout this discussion, I believe that you are a bag of rancid cat feces.

But I forgive myself for voicing such a thought.

Better?


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:40 am 
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Bucfan, you exhaust me. Fine, I guess having Stevens as part of the rally, even though he was a mere performer of music, was a mistake. I don't think it took away from the overarching message being displayed, and I don't think that some distasteful remarks he made over 20 years ago reflects the sum total of what Stevens is, especially in light of the great amount of good work he has done in promoting peace and understanding between the Islamic and Western worlds. But it is clear that the extreme conservatives like yourself have taken a hold of this particular fact and turned it into a political football, and that is unfortunate.

By the way, Bucfan, you're an asshole.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:01 am 
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Willton wrote:
By the way, Bucfan, you're an asshole.

You should forgive yourself for that remark.

And since you have no competent reply, you end the dispute with this.

Nice to see who is "extreme," isn't it? Bias showing, Willton?


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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:13 am 
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I don't begrudge Steward doing what Steward does.

I get scared of those that give weight of meaning to it.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Willton wrote:
By the way, Bucfan, you're an asshole.

You should forgive yourself for that remark.

And since you have no competent reply, you end the dispute with this.

Nice to see who is "extreme," isn't it? Bias showing, Willton?

Fuck you. You want to know what's sad? The whole point of this thread was to champion moderation and civility in discussing politics. Unfortunately, you decided to make it considerably uncivil. You decided to turn this into a mud-slinging contest because you have a big bug up your ass about Jon Stewart poking fun at your idols while not giving enough attention to Barbara Boxer, who is apparently a pariah for the country's woes. In the end, nobody involved likes each other. Congratulations.

I'm sorry I even brought the damn thing up.

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 Post subject: Re: Jon Stewart's Moment of Sincerity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:26 pm 
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I think it is time to lock this thread. Disagreeing is one thing, but disrespecting someone else and then spewing venom is not the purpose of this board. This is just like the dinner table. Always an issue when politics and religion come into the conversation.

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