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 Post subject: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:15 pm 
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I will miss the 24-hour news panting and the wall-to-wall political commericials.

Makes me feel so good about politics in America.


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:07 pm 
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By the time it's over Tuesday there will have been close to $4 Billion spent on political ads...While the whole time, people are still jobless and corporations who have been sitting on huge a surplus of money spent it on getting their boys elected.

A third voice in needs to start standing out, but doesnt look like it will happen anytime soon...

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:47 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
By the time it's over Tuesday there will have been close to $4 Billion spent on political ads...While the whole time, people are still jobless and corporations who have been sitting on huge a surplus of money spent it on getting their boys elected.

A third voice in needs to start standing out, but doesnt look like it will happen anytime soon...

Disagree. A mere look at the amount of success the Rally to Restore Sanity had on Saturday tells me that a credible third voice could be had within the next four years.

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:55 am 
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Yeah, and by the looks of the signs, the slogan will be - "legalize pot".

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Here in Ohio we have crap to choose from for governor. It's either Strickland Propane, who has left Ohio's economy in shambles,
or Bill O'Reilly's nutjob buddy John Kasich. I fear Kasich will win.. he will cut everything from soup kitchens to road repair.

I was in a shouting match with some anti Kucinich folks the other day.. I really lost my cool. Dennis Kucinich is one
of the half decent politicians left but many uneducated Clevelanders feel they have to remove all of the incumbents..


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:35 pm 
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When candidates just flat out lie about each other because it works, causes me to throw up my hands and not even vote. I will cuz I feel the need to voice my opinion but I am with all the other disgusted Americans.

We can have no faith in our leaders when they bash each other with lies and half truths. Is it any wonder people are upset with government. But the hate mongering that is going on now is also repulsive to me.

Fear brings hate and that is where we are now. No one is suggesting any improvement -- just name calling and defeating those who are in office now.

If you think we are not solving problems now wait until this new bunch of no compromse folks stops all action and watch as things simply get worse. Some believe that no action is what we need but I am certain that no jobs will come with no action, and maybe that will make some happy that government is not getting in the way.

I am so sad for my country and its future. Let's do away with the recently passed health care bill because we are so much better off with nothing happening. The result will be higher rates because even more will be uninsured and therefore the rest of us will be required to pay higher rates to cover those who simply don't pay or worse, just do without treatment and get sicker and die sooner.

What a country.

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:50 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yeah, and by the looks of the signs, the slogan will be - "legalize pot".


Compare the numbers of prosecuted cases of driving under the influence of alcohol and driving under the influence of marijuana.

Which of these should be legal? :shock: :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
We can have no faith in our leaders when they bash each other with lies and half truths. Is it any wonder people are upset with government. But the hate mongering that is going on now is also repulsive to me.

Fear brings hate and that is where we are now. No one is suggesting any improvement -- just name calling and defeating those who are in office now.

If you think we are not solving problems now wait until this new bunch of no compromse folks stops all action and watch as things simply get worse. Some believe that no action is what we need but I am certain that no jobs will come with no action, and maybe that will make some happy that government is not getting in the way.

I am so sad for my country and its future.


If, as seems likely, Democrats lose control of the House of Representatives, do you honestly believe it will be because of hate-mongering?

No, it will be because of the arrogance and contempt for ordinary Americans that this administration and the Democrats in Congress have so publicly demonstrated since Obama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2009.

You do realize that the House rammed through passage of Obamacare despite the opposition of the majority of the country, right? Expressed not only in opinion polls but also in town-hall meetings and in millions of phone calls and e-mails to congressional offices. The Democrats knew full well that the legislation wasn't wanted -- knew, in fact, that they'd be voting for language that few of them had even bothered to read. Yet they did it anyway because they realized their party might never again have the opportunity.

And now we're told they propose to double down in a lame-duck session. In all likelihood they'll attempt to force on us cap-and-trade, an amnesty for illegal immigrants, and perhaps even card-check -- not one of which a majority of the country wants. And they can get away with it all if they try hard enough because -- as has been the case since Day One of Obama's presidency -- the Republicans don't have the numbers to stop them. After all, if many Democrats' political careers will just have been ended by the voters, what have they got to lose?

I'd suggest that if your impulse is to revulsion, it ought to be at the arrogance and the contempt. And as for politicians' hate-mongering, lies, and half-truths, if your frame of reference is Republicans, you're probably safer not to go there. Because the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:36 pm 
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Well said Bob. I almost liken this to the first 2 years of the Clinton admin. I don't agree with many points from both sides, but I don't see anything wrong with some checks and balances over this group of mostly knuckleheads.

Bob in Boston wrote:
amnesty for illegal immigrants


A question for you. How do you propose to persuade 12 million hard working illegals to leave our country and go home? If not an amnesty program, what of a citizenship program of some sort?

8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:00 am 
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Sorry, AZ, but I don't accept your premise.

Twelve million hard-working illegals? Where is quantifiable proof of that: their income tax returns? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:06 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Sorry, AZ, but I don't accept your premise.

Twelve million hard-working illegals? Where is quantifiable proof of that: their income tax returns? :lol:


I'm pretty sure 11 million of them live in the house next to me. :o


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:40 am 
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Out in nearby Celeryville, Ohio (Charlie Frye territory) there are many fields where hard working Mexicans work for much less than the
minimum wage. There's not one person on this board who would ever consider doing such a miserable job. There aren't that many illegals..
not even half of one percent of the people in this country. My wife knows a bunch of illegal Filipinos. They have as much right
to be here as anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:13 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Twelve million hard-working illegals? Where is quantifiable proof of that: their income tax returns?


Well the ones with fake SS #s and ID are having taxes withdrawn by payroll. They either work or starve. They aren't collecting unemployment or welfare. They do the majority of the meat packing industry in the midwest. If it weren't for them working in the service and resort industry, your beds and rooms would not get cleaned here in the SW. I have had numerous students leave and say they are going back to Mexico because of the lack of construction jobs. Your produce would never get to market. Your lawns would not be mowed. I could go on and on. I see it everyday. You want something done in this area of the country where there is manual labor needed, don;'t call an American, they don't want to do it.

Now about that question I posed. :shock: :shock: :shock:

8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:06 am 
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Ollie wrote:
Out in nearby Celeryville, Ohio (Charlie Frye territory) there are many fields where hard working Mexicans work for much less than the
minimum wage. There's not one person on this board who would ever consider doing such a miserable job. There aren't that many illegals..
not even half of one percent of the people in this country. My wife knows a bunch of illegal Filipinos. They have as much right
to be here as anyone.


There was a survey done a few years ago asking high school seniors who were about to graduate about certain jobs and were asked to fill in what the salary should be for that job. The average salary they gave a farm worker was $125,000 a year.

Now I am sure it's a bit off because most high school students are used to playing video games, surfing the internet, and texting on their phones and dont know what a real day's worth of work is like. But I'm sure there are adults who wouldnt do that work either for the wages they get.

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Bob in Boston wrote:
Twelve million hard-working illegals? Where is quantifiable proof of that: their income tax returns?


Well the ones with fake SS #s and ID are having taxes withdrawn by payroll. They either work or starve. They aren't collecting unemployment or welfare. They do the majority of the meat packing industry in the midwest. If it weren't for them working in the service and resort industry, your beds and rooms would not get cleaned here in the SW. I have had numerous students leave and say they are going back to Mexico because of the lack of construction jobs. Your produce would never get to market. Your lawns would not be mowed. I could go on and on. I see it everyday. You want something done in this area of the country where there is manual labor needed, don;'t call an American, they don't want to do it.

Now about that question I posed. :shock: :shock: :shock:

8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I could go on and on. I see it everyday. You want something done in this area of the country where there is manual labor needed, don;'t call an American, they don't want to do it...


This is the big argument for allowing this, I suppose. It used to be addressed by a federal worker permit program that seemed to work fine in allowing these folks into the country, allowing them to work in the open, and giving them an eventual pass into citizenship if they wanted it. This program disappeared in the late '50's or early '60's. Not sure exactly why, but I suspect the onset of the minimum wage tied to lower tier union jobs had a lot to do with it.

In any case Az, with unemployment as it is in AZ, if these workers were to disappear one day, how long before the jobs are filled with those American's who need to "work or starve" as you note? I imagine those American's noted earlier who refuse the work, would refuse the work only until there was no more dole for them either in terms of Mom & Dad, or unemployment checks?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:21 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
In any case Az, with unemployment as it is in AZ, if these workers were to disappear one day, how long before the jobs are filled with those American's who need to "work or starve" as you note? I imagine those American's noted earlier who refuse the work, would refuse the work only until there was no more dole for them either in terms of Mom & Dad, or unemployment checks?


Logic would seem to say that would happen but we all know about the reliability of logic. :? :? :?


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:12 am 
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Democrats getting what they deserved today. They had it all in front of them to actually make a difference and do what's best for the country and Nancy Pelosi and her gang of cocky liberals went to far and pissed off America. They got greedy and now they are screwed. Let's see if the new House can make Obama do what's best for the country now.

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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:01 am 
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Az - the question you pose, and the theory you present, deserve a thoughtful reply.

I will try to do so in the next few days. However, let me suggest that the claim that "Americans won't do that job" is bullshit. Americans won't do that job for the pathetically low wages that illegal immigrants accept, that is true, but our country did manage to harvest crops and build houses between 1900 and 1980, without millions of illegal immigrants.

How? Why? Because those jobs paid a decent wage. And guess what ... a person could actually work in construction or farming and earn enough to pay his bills.

Funny how the absurdly low wages are concommitant with illegal immigration ...


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 Post subject: Re: So sad to see election day almost upon us ...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:19 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Americans won't do that job for the pathetically low wages that illegal immigrants accept


Or is it what the employer offers. Az is a right to work state. For example, the school district I work for can say to me, this is what we will pay you. Your choice is to take it or leave it. They have no legal obligation to negotiate in any way. I have taken a pay cut two years running and honestly doubt if I will get a pay increase anytime in the foreseeable future.

The problem in America is that we don't make or produce much of anything at all anymore. Mainly because Americans don't want to pay for products that would be more expensive to produce in America. Just look at our trade deficit.


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