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 Post subject: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:00 pm 
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There's a lengthy interview of the WikiLeaks founder on today's "Democracy Now." Interesting stuff. You won't see this
on your corporate media. And my congressman Dennis Kucinich has a bit at the beginning (love him!)

Of course the Obama administration wants to go after the souces who leaked all the military documents.. they
have no intention to look into the countless war crimes we've committed over in Afghanistan.

http://www.democracynow.org


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:23 pm 
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And your buddies have no remorse for the hundreds of Afghani's they have now condemned to death by disclosure.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:44 pm 
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ZM those leaks were from our people. There are some folks out there who want the public to know what's really going
on. Shouldn't we have a right to know when our military massacres civilians? Our media censors so much the average
American doesn't know jack $hit.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Hundreds of Afghani's who were used to track al Queda are named, along with most importantly, their fathers.

It will be a massacre.

Thank you wiki.

I don't solicit your "alternate universe" Ollie.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:06 am 
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How can congress make a decision to move in the right direction if the information given to to American people is
wrong? These leaked classified documents allow the people to make informed decisions. Then they can tell their congressman or woman to please vote in whichever favor they want. That is the beauty of a democratic republic.
Lies in the name of national security is why the problems in Afghanistan still exist and we cannot move forward.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:21 pm 
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They've revealed names of hundreds of Afghani's who have helped the US forces. Condemning them and their families to death.

Hope your happy with that.

You're world of uber war crimes is a fantasy world.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:16 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
They've revealed names of hundreds of Afghani's who have helped the US forces. Condemning them and their families to death.

Hope your happy with that

ZM


Ah, not to mention the Social Security numbers of US military personnel who've spent time in Afghanistan -- female as well as male. Exposing them, at a minimum, to potential identity theft.

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:47 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
How can congress make a decision to move in the right direction if the information given to to American people is
wrong? These leaked classified documents allow the people to make informed decisions. Then they can tell their congressman or woman to please vote in whichever favor they want. That is the beauty of a democratic republic.
Lies in the name of national security is why the problems in Afghanistan still exist and we cannot move forward.


Ollie, don't be naive. The American people told their representatives in Congress how they wished them to vote on Obamacare, and the members of the majority party in Congress replied, "Go pound sand." So, please, spare us the banalities about the "beauty of a democratic republic."

What that self-righteous little worm from Wikileaks has done is treasonous, and he deserves a traitor's fate. And, of course, it's purely coincidental that every page of the leaks so far happens to be from the Bush years in the White House, right? Even though significant modifications to the Afghan war strategy have come under Obama.

Of all the commentary to date on the matter, this one sums it up the most succinctly. It's by Ralph Peters, the defense columnist of the New York Post:

Quote:
An alert reader -- and the terrorists have plenty on the case -- can harvest vital information about our special operations, unit locations, logistics vulnerabilities, fire-support system, response times, medevac procedures, command-and-control weaknesses, intelligence deficiencies, physical security, weapons limitations, internal policy debates . . . and that's just the start.

American service members will die because of the WikiLeaks "service to humanity." And nobody in Washington seems to have noticed.

Afghans will die, too. A lot of them. In just a few hours of data-mining, Britain's The Times unearthed the names of hundreds of Afghans who've helped us. Information about their families and home villages is in there, too.

Think the Taliban will give a free pass to Afghans who've supported us? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Afghan lives are newly at risk. It's a huge gift to the terrorists: Our collaborators will run for cover -- and recruiting informants will be immeasurably more difficult.


I don't wish to be uncharitable. But from what you've written on the subject so far, I'm tempted to conclude that these are prospective outcomes you wouldn't necessarily mind seeing happen.

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:59 am 
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I suspect the opposite desired outcome will come to pass. The military will become even more secretive.
I'm now wondering if leaks are really possible. Maybe these were leaked intentionally to rile conservatives.

I am not rooting for deaths on either side. I don't believe in manmade borders.. to me an Afghan is
the same as an American. If you guys were Afghans you would sure want to get revenge on those who
murdered your civilian family members. War crimes are being committed there like it or not.

We had no business sending anybody there. It was all just so we could get the flow of oil out of Taliban's
control. We have to get that pipeline going to China.

I know, I know.. 9-11. That's your mantra. You already know that many free thinking folks believe 9-11
was an inside job. Why can't you guys see the big picture? I know you're proud of your country but
you seem blinded by that pride. We've been the bully on the playground for a long time and now we're
controlled by Wall Street and the world's elite.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:32 am 
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Its 8 AM, turn to George Soros and pray.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:11 am 
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Ollie wrote:
I know, I know.. 9-11. That's your mantra. You already know that many free thinking folks believe 9-11
was an inside job. Why can't you guys see the big picture? I know you're proud of your country but
you seem blinded by that pride. We've been the bully on the playground for a long time and now we're
controlled by Wall Street and the world's elite.

Those free thinking folks lack evidence to support their theory. They also clearly don't subscribe to Occam's Razor.

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
I don't believe in manmade borders.. to me an Afghan is
the same as an American.


That is ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:20 pm 
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And here's more on the leaks. It seems the prime suspect is a half-Brit/half-American soldier of the homosexual persuasion who became despondent after his relationship with his -- ah -- significant other ended.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html

It all makes perfect sense now. Why, who among us wouldn't instinctively seek to get even in a circumstance like that by leaking 90,000 secret combat documents to the world?

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:39 pm 
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This thread proved to be useful. I learned about Occam's razor. lol

Ralphie, I'm a hippie.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
Ralphie, I'm a hippie.

But smart enough to differentiate releasing information for important reasons, and releasing information that serves no purpose and may well cause problems, including potential loss of life.

The documents were released by somebody whose access made it incumbent on him to protect the security of those whose information he had access to.

If a lawyer uncovers information that is vital to proving that a product has a known but hidden defect, the lawyer is obligated to protect the privileged nature of the information. We can debate the merits of releasing such information - I don't think that rules of privilege and confidence can be "waived" by one person's personal view - but the simple fact is that in my analogy, the release of information did not limit itself to the potentially dangerous product; it included a release of private medical records for employees who were involved in making the product, privileged employment files, performance reviews of people who had nothing to do with keeping the defect a secret, etc.

The guy who released the information used the equivalent of an information H-bomb to kill a mouse. Sure, the mouse is dead, but the unrestricted and improper release of information cannot - CANNOT - be defended.

Why do I say this? Because we adopt accepted rules of behavior as a society. Those rules are not voluntary for the most part. I may disagree with tax policy, spending decisions, etc. but I do not have the right to invade a politician's computer and publish clearly privileged information, completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, because I "think" that the public policy is wrong, or that I am "doing good."

Otherwise, what the hell is the good of having rules? Can we all ignore them when we can come up with a reason?

Would that include my having a "reason" to steal the privileged medical records of the guy who revealed the information, and release those to the public? How about psychological records? Financial records? Why not? I can come up with a valid reason for doing so (possible bias, interest or motive).


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
And here's more on the leaks. It seems the prime suspect is a half-Brit/half-American soldier of the homosexual persuasion who became despondent after his relationship with his -- ah -- significant other ended.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html

It all makes perfect sense now. Why, who among us wouldn't instinctively seek to get even in a circumstance like that by leaking 90,000 secret combat documents to the world?


I might have known it would be a fucking faggot who was responsible.

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:09 am 
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Real smart comment there, Bertie..

So you guys don't care if our soldiers are committing war crimes, violating the Geneva Conventions..
Our guys have this "kill everyone" mentality.. we shoot children, mistake cameras for AK47s..
meanwhile we're over there protecting the poppy fields.

All wars are based on deception. There is no noble purpose in invading a country.


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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:48 am 
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Yes, we care.

No, your characterization if not true.

You, Ollie, are the one misrepresenting things.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:16 pm 
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Bertie, on behalf of my friends who are homosexual, I suggest you kindly fuck off.

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 Post subject: Re: WikiLeaks..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:12 am 
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Willton wrote:
Bertie, on behalf of my friends who are homosexual, I suggest you kindly fuck off.


Don't get on your high horse. Why so touchy?
It was supposed to be sarcasm.

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