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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:51 am 
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I cannot speak one way or another on most of these subjects in these previous posts, but as a teacher, I can comfortably state that the No Child Left Behind legislation from the Bush administration is laughable in its expectations. It was put together by politicians with no clue as to what can and cannot be accomplished with students in this day and age. These guys who grew up in the 40's, 50's and 60's simply expect educational strategies that they grew up with to work now. They haven't figured out that what worked then will not work now. It is a different world, with different parents, different kids and different issues. It is another example of the "one size fits all" mentality. I have taught in each of the last 4 decades (oh my!) and can attest to the changes. NCLB also expects that ALL students, yes 100%, will be on grade level or above in the next 4-6 years. That just ain't gonna happen folks for a myriad of reasons to lengthy to list. Add to this that schools are not equally nor adequately funded. Just as an example, the Special Ed. programs mandated by the feds are only 25-27% funded. We, middle schools, are given 134 criteria to meet to be considered a performing school. Failure to meet one of those 134 criteria results in being labeled a failing school. Our school failed just one. You can guess the result. Oh, and what criteria did we fail, our populations segment consisting of about 20 English Language Learners, ELL or ESL, depending where you live, failed to make adequate yearly improvement. Of course they can't take the testing in their own native language either. LOLOL


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:58 am 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
Has de-rerulation had a role in the financial mess we are now in? Have banks in their desire to make more money given out loans over and over to people who couldn't afford them? De-reguation let them do it. Borrowers should have known better but most Americans turn to the lending institution for expertise in borrowing and most believed that they wouldn't get the loan if they couldn't make payments. DE-REGULATE THEM AND LET THEM MAKE MONEY.

Has the value of our currency gone down drastically because of the huge debt incurred by this Bush War? There should be no question that we are buying whatever preceived calmness in Iraq. We have paid the rebels to stop, and of course, we have sent more Americans to be in harms way. We have additionally spent billions over there in this Bush War for the people of Iraq to rebuild what we should never of destroyed. We have also for the last three or four years been paying big bonuses to get young people to sign up -- 20,000 to 30,000 or we would have no army of volunmteers. Even at that we seem to need more to sustain the offensive. So, we're about to declare victory and reduce the number of troops in Iraq. We have no choice.

Has the economy gone to hell because of this mess. Yes, deficit spending for this war has put us at the mercy of other countries. The world has less confidence in our money because we are more unstable. What has this leader done to solve any of these problems? Recommender that we allow oil companies have more rights for drilling that will not solve the problem at all. We need an FDR approach to the problem. An all out effort inspired and incentivized by our government to get us independent of oil as quickly as possible.

When your currency goes down like ours has, the result is the everything that you iimport goes up in price. Guess what that include a majority of consumer goods and gasoline for sure. So, now we get the inflation to add to all the other screw up of this Presidency. Can he mess anything else up in his remaining months? One of the worst if not the worst we have ever had.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Last edited by Substitute2 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:13 pm 
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BTW Bob, the elderly AARP oppossed the drug bill as written because the pharmacudical industry was the biggest winner in the deal. Many who worked on the bill in Congress or staff, are now gainfully employed by the drug companies for huge salaries, Not a coincidence that they got the most out of that deal. Again biased for the wealthy.
We're not allowed to buy drugs from Canada according to the Bush FDA. That decision only continues the rape of the middle to help the rich.

No President, even Bush, could not re-act to 911 with something like Homeland Security Office. Most would have required some competence for leaders in that critical department. Remember 'Brownie's doing a hell of a job down here' (New Orleans aftermath, according to Bush). Yes, FEMA is part of Homeland Security.

I could go on and on and on...

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Az-- I am a retired teacher who Subs now (39 years all together). You put your finger on another Bush mess. What a terrible program.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:22 pm 
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Now you know where I stand on todays politics. I'm sorry if I bored you to death, and I'll try not to do that any more, but I gutta tell you that a rant like that sure made me feel better. I needed to get that off my chest.

Again, sorry.

SUB

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:37 pm 
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So, from a global perspective, if you have net worth of more than $61,000, you are rich.

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/12/define-rich.html

So who's in charge of defining "rich" anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Our betters, silly!

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Wow! So much doom and gloom.

Where to start?

Well, OK, someone show me where I said the No Child Left Behind Act was good law. I believe that all I said was it came during the administration of Bush 42. And you do realize who wrote it, right?

That would be US Sen. Ted Kennedy (D) of Massachusetts.

Military enlistment bonuses: Surely, you're aware that in one form or another, they've been around for generations. That's generations -- not just since the the war in Iraq began. And so what? You're a sports fan; do you have a problem with the concept of signing bonuses?

Mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them: Congress's fault, folks. Do you doubt that? Read the following:
(http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/30/real_estate/congress_subprime.fortune/index.htm

BTW, got any idea what the percentage of mortgagees is who are in default on their subprime loans? According to the New York Times (citing Mortgage Bankers Association statistics), as of March -- four months ago -- it was 7.9 percent. If my math is accurate, that means 92.1 percent of mortgage-payers aren't in default or being foreclosed upon. The same Mortgage Bankers Association reported earlier this month that applications for new home loans in the week ending July 4 went up 7.5 percent over the previous week.

http://www.mortgagebankers.org/NewsandMedia/PressCenter/63552.htm

So, somebody apparently is still optimistic about home ownership.

National debt: Of course, it's high and growing. Yes, the dollar has dropped in value compared to the euro. But that will turn around in time; it always has. Would you rather live in Europe, where -- since you're not a citizen -- you're probably unemployable and may not be eligible to buy real estate? Or in Latin America, most of whose economies are mired in poverty? Or maybe in China, where the air isn't breathable and farmers still fertilize their crops with "night soil"?

Economy/inflation: Officially, on an annualized basis, inflation hit 4.18 percent in May. In India, whose economy is growing faster than almost any other country's except China, it's 11 percent. China's? In the most recent report I've seen, which the Beijing government issued in February, it was 8.7 percent and had just risen at the fastest rate in 12 years.

Meanwhile, the US unemployment rate, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm , held steady last month at 5.5 percent. Canada's is 6 percent, China's 6.1 percent, Germany's 8.4, Iran's 11. The world average last year was estimated at 27 percent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Importing prescription drugs from Canada: According to CNN http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/05/pf/saving/toptips/index.htm, US Customs and Homeland Security stopped confiscating them in October 2006. That being the case, people who aren't taking advantage either aren't informed or have made a conscious choice not do do so.

I don't dispute that congressional figures and perhaps even some from the administration have taken high-paying jobs in the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah, that may smell to high heaven, but last time I checked it's not illegal and has been going on for centuries. Do you also condemn the double-dippers who do the reverse and slide into jobs in government after they retire from the private sector? So that they qualify for two pensions, of course.

Independence from oil: Not -- I repeat, not -- gonna happen. Your children's grandchildren are still going to be using it. Just today (July 15), Boeing and Airbus announced orders at the Farnborough Air Show in England for 304 new passenger jets that won't even be delivered for years. And the show isn't over yet, so there may well be more. That's on top of the 506 that were ordered last year at the Paris Air Show. Airlines wouldn't order them if they didn't have confidence that oil will be available in abundance for generations into the future.

When it's obvious that the world finally is running out of oil, new technologies will be coming on line and in economies of scale that the transition will be smooth. You and I just won't be around to see it happen.

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Last edited by Bob in Boston on Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:02 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
When it's obvious that the world finally is running out of oil, new technologies will be coming on line and in economies of scale that the transition will be smooth.


Bingo!!

Expecting the government to force free enterprises into adopting "new technologies" is a freakin' riot.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:04 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Our betters, silly!

ZM


Oh, I'll just wait for Sisy to stop by and clear all this up then. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Many areas but I don't want to continue arguing, Bob.

You seem to think that I'm negative about the country. I am not at all. Remember the Progressive movement at the turn of the 20th century.(I'm almost old enough to have lived it). Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican President, and one of the very best, brought about many changes to improve the lot of the average man. Started the eight hour day, workers comp, child labor laws, and many others. No one accusses him of being negative, and he sure advocated and completed many necessary changes to our country. I at least think he improved things by regulating the Robber Barons who had free reign and abused their underlings.

That's really the direction my argument is intended to go. We need change to improve things. To point out areas that need change does not make a person negative but actually progressive. The BS about love it or leave it, is just that- BS. We all have a responsibility to try to make things better. To refuse to want to do that makes one somewhat unamerican.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:53 pm 
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Once again, I am only speaking of my personal experience with NCLB. That said, Ted Kennedy is about as far out of touch with anything outside the beltway as they come. I don't like any of the twits inside 1-95.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:02 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Many areas but I don't want to continue arguing, Bob.


Sub, I don't regard what we've been doing as an argument.

Having said that, I've long since tired of President Bush being held responsible for all that's not ideal in this country. He isn't. He didn't send Hurricane Katrina to New Orleans, he didn't make the I-35 bridge collapse in Minneapolis last summer, he didn't cause homelessness, climate change, the high price of gasoline, the subprime lending mess, or the falling value of the dollar. And it's not because of him that those stinking Islamist swine targeted us on 9/11.

He was legitimately elected, no matter what his political opponents or the news media would have you believe. It was razor-close, but he was elected, not selected. To try to get off on the right foot, when he came to Washington, he reached the hand of friendship across the aisle, and the Democrats bit it. That's not his fault; it's theirs.

He isn't particularly articulate, which many of us find embarrassing. I wish he hadn't signed McCain-Feingold and had been tougher on illegal immigration and Iran. But I happen to work in the news media -- always have. And I gotta tell you, the way reporters and twits like Keith Olbermann and Bill Maher, who aren't fit to wipe the dust off his cowboy boots, mock him every day of his life is positively disgraceful. It's no wonder that people think badly of him when that's all they hear on TV and read in the papers.

And as I've said before on this board, I don't give a %$#! what the Europeans or people anywhere else in the world think of us. The US, no matter who is in the White House, is the greatest and most generous country in human history. With precious few exceptions, they're no help to us, much less grateful, and we damn well don't need their approval.

One more point: I may be closer to you in age than anyone else on this board. I have two grown children: a son and a daughter, who are the loves of my life. My son is a volunteer firefighter. My daughter, in September 2001, lived in an apartment one block -- one block -- from the motel where those bastards stayed the night before they hijacked the planes at Logan Airport. I think of that almost every day, realizing she might have seen them on the street and assumed they were perfectly normal people. Two years later, she accepted a job in midtown Manhattan. To get to work, she rides public transportation into the city five days a week. George W. Bush's administration has kept her safe. For that alone, I'm willing to cut him a lot of slack.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:48 am 
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Substitute2 wrote:

We need change to improve things.


One of the great shibboleth's of the modern area, that has got us into the current mess.
Constant tinkering with tradition and custom has affected the entire fabric of society. When politicians meddle in affairs they invariably mess things up. Their motives are usually self-seeking, and thus 'reforms' are not fully thought through. Single-issue lobbyists persuade them based on one side of the argument only. They (the politocos) then decide that they know better than the silent majority and impose laws based on inadequate principles.
And thus you get the "Nanny state". Interfering in every aspect of life and producing a detrimental effect on the entire fabric of society and thus the life of the common man.
I challenge anyone to find an example of where 'things' are better than they were 50 years ago, particularly in an individual sense of community and moral values.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:28 am 
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First you have to define 'life not being better' in the last 50 years.

My family compared to my father's family is living much better with less real income.
We have air conditioning, two cars, vacations, dish washer, disposal, monster TV, many TVs, recorder, Cable TV, surround sound, computers wireless phones, cell phones, digital cameras. My father's family had none of those or the many other things which make life easier for us.

All of that has happened because we live in this country and have the most advanced economic system in the world. I dispute none of that. I am proud to be in this country.

If the issue is moral values, again it needs to be defined. To some, the fact that gays have some rights today is seen as going down hill, that we have lost our moral values. I would suggest that in fact the treating of all of God's children equally is a moral improvement. There are other issues where your perspective helps formulate your opinion. Just because one has a certain religion's views does not necessarily make them correct for everyone.
Additionally, government has no business in dictating moral values, except in areas where they garentee equal treatment of people, i.e. laws against violence, to protect property rights, stopping the unfair treatment on people by others. It should not dictate any Christian concepts on people. Before you think otherwise, I am a Christian. I just believe that those of other views have every right to live here the way they want, without government telling them they are immoral and must stop. The absurd makes the point -- Georgia until the courts struck it down, had a law against gay behavior in one's own home. That the government could come into your bedroom and arrest you for sleeping with someone of the same sex. Government has no business there except to protect people from being taken advantage of (rape, incest).
Some see that as immoral behavior that must be stopped. I just don't.

Again, I am not Gay nor do I have any close friends who are. I am a Christian. I like to think that I examine things and don't accept them because that is the way it is. It bothers me that I feel I need to explain that to anyone reading this.

So, to gage the recent turns in our country as worse in the last 50 years, takes some definition in my opinion.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Additionally, government has no business in dictating moral values, except in areas where they garentee equal treatment of people, i.e. laws against violence, to protect property rights, stopping the unfair treatment on people by others. It should not dictate any Christian concepts on people. Before you think otherwise, I am a Christian. I just believe that those of other views have every right to live here the way they want, without government telling them they are immoral and must stop.


But how are you going to stop elected representatives from writing and passing legislation that you don't agree with? Over time, they can be voted out one by one, but that just doesn't happen en masse. There always are going to be constituencies that want certain restrictions imposed on the rest of us.

As for same-sex marriage, I can't recall offhand the number of states that have put the issue on the November ballot in the form of a referendum. But it's close to half, and they've all been defeated, usually by landslides. Then the courts come along and strike them down.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:08 pm 
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I challenge anyone to find an example of where 'things' are better than they were 50 years ago, particularly in an individual sense of community and moral values.


Women and minorities have higher earning power and more status. We had a woman and still have a black man ruuning to be the most important & powerful "person"(not man)in the world. Moral value?..or do you mean church values? One thing for sure is the seperation of church and state is different. God has been taken out of the Schools, but this country was founded on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Iraq Illegal immigrants
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Bob --

I've enjoyed the back and forth with you on this. It is obvious to me that you are a thoughtful person. While you and I may not agree, I have a growing respect for your honesty and thought process. Let me end this by saying 'you have every right to express your wrong ideas'. LOL LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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