Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:17 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:05 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6268
BBF wrote:
And I'm sure our resident phys ed teacher can tell us this problem is getting worse, not better.


Amen brother!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Useless?

Image

Unless you're one of those whack jobs who thinks 9/11 was an inside job.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6194
Location: Keystone State
Yeah because of all those WMDs we found in Iraq. How many of the terrorists in 9/11 were Iraqis?

The only whack jobs are the ones who didn't see the real agenda of that war. Actually, I take that back. They weren't whack jobs. They were suckers.

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
You said two useless wars. Two.

Go ahead and tell us all how the war in Afghanistan was useless.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6194
Location: Keystone State
Jeremy wrote:
You said two useless wars. Two.

Go ahead and tell us all how the war in Afghanistan was useless.


Just because it wasn't as useless as Iraq doesn't mean it wasn't useless.

And the biggest reason history will see them as mistakes is when we are gone, the extremists will take control again. Iraq will have a civil war and Afghanistan will fall prey to the Taliban again. Unless you think we should stay there forever.

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
bucco boy wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
You said two useless wars. Two.

Go ahead and tell us all how the war in Afghanistan was useless.


Just because it wasn't as useless as Iraq doesn't mean it wasn't useless.

And the biggest reason history will see them as mistakes is when we are gone, the extremists will take control again. Iraq will have a civil war and Afghanistan will fall prey to the Taliban again. Unless you think we should stay there forever.


So what would you have done in response to 9/11 bucco boy?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6194
Location: Keystone State
Jeremy wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
You said two useless wars. Two.

Go ahead and tell us all how the war in Afghanistan was useless.


Just because it wasn't as useless as Iraq doesn't mean it wasn't useless.

And the biggest reason history will see them as mistakes is when we are gone, the extremists will take control again. Iraq will have a civil war and Afghanistan will fall prey to the Taliban again. Unless you think we should stay there forever.


So what would you have done in response to 9/11 bucco boy?


Go back and read this post. I would have sunk the money into intelligence and securing our borders, something we still haven't done.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/24/te ... r-borders/

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:03 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 5612
bucco boy wrote:
Just because it wasn't as useless as Iraq doesn't mean it wasn't useless.

And the biggest reason history will see them as mistakes is when we are gone, the extremists will take control again. Iraq will have a civil war and Afghanistan will fall prey to the Taliban again. Unless you think we should stay there forever.


Cuba. Germany. Italy. Japan. South Korea. Kuwait. (Among others)

Pretty sure we can add two to that list, no biggie.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:24 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
careful, those of you who reject this health care law. The details of the benefits of it are now becoming kown to Americans who really got misinformation from the right as to its facts. The reaction of people is already changing and will continue to become more supportive as we learn the benefits to all become better known.

Go ahead and recreate a world where caps and previous conditions cause bankruptcy, or take away senior citizens new drug coverage, or insurance for kids until 26 and see how many votes you gain. There is also the small item of 32 million now geting coverage.

Are you beginning to worry yet

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Quote:
You are right. It's going to hit the little guy at AT&T, but I guarantee upper management will not lose their corporate jets and third houses on the French Riviera. Because that's the choice the company will make. And just because the loophole was there legally, doesn't make it right. Corporate Socialism at it's best. And believe me, the government has failed in many different ways. If you feel this bill is one of them, then add it to the list. Heck, we could have insured everyone with the billions of dollars we have been paying military contracts to fight two useless wars. Off soapbox.


Are you actually upset about the folks that can't afford healthcare... or are you more concerned about people who are living the American dream and making far more money than you and I?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:24 am 
Online
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: Zelienople, PA
Substitute2 wrote:
careful, those of you who reject this health care law. The details of the benefits of it are now becoming kown to Americans who really got misinformation from the right as to its facts. The reaction of people is already changing and will continue to become more supportive as we learn the benefits to all become better known..


Oooo... Ooo... you mean like the extra $240 I will be forced to pay every month to support some kind of new "in home health care" benefit?

Or, how about the announcement that, conservatively, insurance premiums are going up 200-300% in 2011 to accomidate the new, mandated infrastructure and inclusion of all folks conditions.

Or, how about the inflation on medical instruments that will take effect when the taxing of medical supplies such as diabetes test strips, takes effect immediately.

Anyone who has bothered to actually read through this monstrosity knows it is a shambles designed to create a bigger mess that will have the government saying "Well only WE can fix this" in a few years.

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
You are right. It's going to hit the little guy at AT&T, but I guarantee upper management will not lose their corporate jets and third houses on the French Riviera. Because that's the choice the company will make. And just because the loophole was there legally, doesn't make it right. Corporate Socialism at it's best. And believe me, the government has failed in many different ways. If you feel this bill is one of them, then add it to the list. Heck, we could have insured everyone with the billions of dollars we have been paying military contracts to fight two useless wars. Off soapbox.


Are you actually upset about the folks that can't afford healthcare... or are you more concerned about people who are living the American dream and making far more money than you and I?

Keep stuffing that straw, PF13.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:50 pm 
Online
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: Zelienople, PA
Stuffing straw? Really?

Sen Max Baucus this weekend. Quote.

"This bill is about redistribution... the wealthy are making too much money, and we have to redistribute it"

Some straw, that.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
You are right. It's going to hit the little guy at AT&T, but I guarantee upper management will not lose their corporate jets and third houses on the French Riviera. Because that's the choice the company will make. And just because the loophole was there legally, doesn't make it right. Corporate Socialism at it's best. And believe me, the government has failed in many different ways. If you feel this bill is one of them, then add it to the list. Heck, we could have insured everyone with the billions of dollars we have been paying military contracts to fight two useless wars. Off soapbox.


Are you actually upset about the folks that can't afford healthcare... or are you more concerned about people who are living the American dream and making far more money than you and I?

Keep stuffing that straw, PF13.


You know as well as I do that it's no strawman argument... the first line of his argument states his disdain for rich America. How did I conjure that up?

Here's the deal, I believe one way, you believe another and there is nothing that either of us can say to sway the other towards the opposite. The facts are the facts, you nor BB, nor Sub can deny the fact that America is moving towards a Socialist(if not already) society. With this new legislation we have the first real evidence of redistributing of the wealth and I'm concerned of how far its going to go. Pretty soon, all of our children will be getting assignments to their "career fields" because too many rich people have their sons and daughters taking all of the Doctors and Lawyers spots and its not fair to the poor people.

It is apparent that you have this dislike for me but I'm sorry to disappoint you Wilton but the feeling isn't mutual. You have every right, just as I do to believe and say whatever you want. So you can throw every million dollar word in your arsenal and wow me with your perceived superior knoweldge, and I may snipe back in some way or another, shucks, I might even talk about being in the Military *gasp* because I am proud as hell that I served my country. BUT, in the end, your American, I'm American, we're both on the same team and until both party affiliations can get that concept back into their heads, this country is circling the drain.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
ZelieMike wrote:
Stuffing straw? Really?

Sen Max Baucus this weekend. Quote.

"This bill is about redistribution... the wealthy are making too much money, and we have to redistribute it"

Some straw, that.

ZM

Last I checked, Max Baucus and BuccoBoy were two distinct persons. Attributing a quote from Max Baucus to BuccoBoy is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:22 pm 
Online
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: Zelienople, PA
You need to go and reread bb's post before you make that claim.

But then again, I am talking to, probably,the only lawyer in America that believes defense of the nation is a choice of Congress.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6194
Location: Keystone State
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
You are right. It's going to hit the little guy at AT&T, but I guarantee upper management will not lose their corporate jets and third houses on the French Riviera. Because that's the choice the company will make. And just because the loophole was there legally, doesn't make it right. Corporate Socialism at it's best. And believe me, the government has failed in many different ways. If you feel this bill is one of them, then add it to the list. Heck, we could have insured everyone with the billions of dollars we have been paying military contracts to fight two useless wars. Off soapbox.


Are you actually upset about the folks that can't afford healthcare... or are you more concerned about people who are living the American dream and making far more money than you and I?


If AT&T has to cover charges of a billion dollars because the US Government (really it's you and me) won't pay anymore, then AT&T has to find it within their cost structure. They choose to screw the little guy, not upper and middle management. So would you rather your tax money go towards people who can't afford health care or people living the American Dream?

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6194
Location: Keystone State
ZelieMike wrote:
You need to go and reread bb's post before you make that claim.

But then again, I am talking to, probably,the only lawyer in America that believes defense of the nation is a choice of Congress.

ZM


Which post are you referring to from me?

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
ZelieMike wrote:
You need to go and reread bb's post before you make that claim.

I did, and I see no indication of him advocating for redistribution of wealth. I see him showing a lack of sympathy for heads of coroporate entities that make lots of money, but I do not see any inkling of him saying that the Government should be playing Robin Hood. Perhaps you can point to the post where he does.

ZelieMike wrote:
But then again, I am talking to, probably,the only lawyer in America that believes defense of the nation is a choice of Congress.

ZM

And I'm probably talking to the only Republican who likes to read-in Constitutional duties and responsibilities of Congress that are not explicitly written in the Constitution's text. Earl Warren would be proud.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Healthcare lawsuits
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
I don't come into this forum very often, but I read the entire discussion here. Some good points by all concerned. I offer the following as an analysis, though admittedly late in the game. The following comments are provided with a minimum of emotion, and are not meant to be insulting to any on this board:

1. Health care is not a right under the Federal Constitution. Rights are set forth in the Constitution and are not made up by whoever happens to be in charge.

2. If health care were a "right," then legislation compelling what health care insurance could provide, had to provide, who it covered, when the coverage took effect, how much it cost, who paid, etc. would not be permitted. By definition, rights are not to be infringed except upon a showing of "compelling" government interest. That is the analysis used for 1st and 14th amendment cases. That means, the government cannot tell us what to say, who to say it to, how much to charge for saying it, etc.

3. If health care coverage is expanded - i.e., more are provided access to health care and health insurance - then shortages and rationing are an inevitable result. Both economic analysis and experience show this to be the case.

4. Economic analysis shows that shortage of the "product" - health care - will result because the demand for health service is increased, while the supply remains constant (unless the plan somehow imports new doctors, new nurses, opens new hospitals). The plan does not address the supply of health care at all, except to rein in the amount paid for government-provided health care to the health care practitioner. A reduction of the amount paid to the health provider produces a reduced supply - i.e., less willing to provide the service because of the reduced compensation. But even assuming the supply remains constant (an absurdly optimisitic assumption), then the increased demand (more covered, more consumers, more demand) will mean shortage since where the demand goes up, and the supply stays the same, the cost must increase to accommodate the new demand so that new providers enter the market, to meet the new demand. This is the supply/demand analysis that is at the foundation of capitalism.

5. But since medical services are not subject to prompt increase in supply - medical school is 4 years, hospitals take years to build, there is already a serious shortage of qualified nurses - the only possible market outcome is shortage due to the supply outstripping the demand. Shortage of a service like medical care = rationing.

6. This analysis has been put forth by many smarter than me. Rationing is a very, VERY likely outcome under the plan as presently enacted. Clicking your heels together and hoping that market forces simply skip over this issue is not well-advised.

7. As for bucco's concerns about those who are uninsured needing medical care, and not having the resources to pay for such care, one issue bears consideration. Specifically, the new health care legislation mandates that pre-existing conditions are covered. Why do all insurance policies - not just health care - provide that pre-existing conditions are not covered? Because otherwise why have insurance in place, and pay the costs associated with that insurance, before the problem arises?? Under the new requirements, I simply wait for illness to strike, then get the insurance. I am covered. I save a ton of money in the meantime.

8. Look at it this way. If car insurance covered accidents and property damage that occurred before the insurance went into effect, who would buy car insurance before having the accident or suffering the property damage?

9. How do Europe, Canada, etc. fund their health care? First, the health care system is a government-run program. The American system is not. When the system is government run, the government can mandate what is covered, what is not, how much a service is to cost, how much will be paid. European countries and Canada have done exactly that. Until America decides to make it a government-run systems, those comparisons are not viable.

10. Second, as far as Europe and Canada are concerned, experience shows that rationing is a part of the supply of medical care. For example, in England medical services are admittedly rationed:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124692973435303415.html

HS London is the Strategic Health Authority for London, England. A paper leaked in April of this year openly acknowledged NHS London’s new mandate for cost containment through health care rationing, this, despite it’s stated mission to “deliver world-class care.”

http://business-school-blog.elliottback ... precedent/

Shortages and rationing may well become necessary if no changes are made to the current system. I prefer that we discuss the issue realistically. Expecting no shortages or rationing to stem from the program is not supported either by experience or by economic models.

So much for my rather late contribution to this topic.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits