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 Post subject: Re: It will take a miracle . . .
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:36 pm 
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Wilton makes a valid argument when he explains the problem of 'liitle as possible government' except where certain social issues are concerned.

Federalism is a part of our history and was for sure part of the founding fathers intent. The reason was, of course, to keep power from being to concentrated. The same reason for three branch of government. As time has past, this whole concept has evolved. Today the central government has much more power. So much so that instead of calling our government in Washington the natioal government as would be correct, we call it the federal government.

The issue of state power was argued by John C. Calhoun when he and South Carolina professed that their state could nullify national laws that conflicted with state laws. In that argument about who has the power, the national government won out easily. But it was one of the main reasons for the establishment of the Confederacy.

Today we have accepted that the national government is much more powerful and important. States are not permitted to conflict with them and the Americsn public has by and large accepted that as the way it should be.

Now some Americans preach that we need to limit government so that it has little function in our lives as possible. It really can be determined by understanding the need for government. Is it for national defense, and little else? Or are there other needs that are only met by government? Without government we would not have Social Security, Medicare, presciption drug coverage, Medicaide, funding for highways and bridges,national parks, and many, many other services we demand. Government can not and should not get out of our lives unless we want to revolutionize the way we live.

In the end I am left with this question that some of you may be able to answer: WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO SEES GOVERNMENT AS THE ENEMY AND CAUSE OF OUR PROBLEMS EVER WANT TO HOLD A POSITION IN THAT GOVERNMENT?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: It will take a miracle . . .
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:29 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
"From what I read"

I believe this is the problem we have in America today. We isolate ourselves from anyone with a different point of view and never bother to learn what the average person thinks. You say that Republicans/Conservatives want to ban gay marriage. But I sit here knowing people like Pete Coors (chairman of Coors Brewing Co and a former candidate for the Senate from Colorado) and Meg McCain (daughter of Senator John McCain) are advocates of gay marriage. Coors Brewing Company already gives benefits to the same sex partners of it's homosexual employees. Both Cindy and Meg McCain (the wife and daughter of Sen John McCain) recently did ads in California opposing Prop 8.

If you want to take the stances of the religious right and apply them to all Republicans/Conservatives, that's fine. Just don't be offended when Republicans/Conservatives take the stances of groups like Code Pink and applyt them to all Democrats/Liberals.


Jeremy -
My take: "Conservatives" are a subpart of Republicans. And there is a gradation of "conservative" doctrine. "Liberals" are a subpart of Democrats. And there is a gradation of "liberalism."

The last presidential election is a perfect illustration. McCain was the Republican candidate but he was hardly embraced by conservatives.

What I wrote was "from what I read, most conservatives." I was not equating conservatives with Republicans. I did not write, "from what I read, most Republicans."

I wholeheartedly agree with you on a particular point. A problem in this country today is the attempted villification on both sides of the aisle through sterotyping and emotional language. Just listen to Olberman and Limbaugh. Maddow and Hannity or Beck. Republicans are portrayed as "right wing religious nutjobs." Democrats are portrayed as "liberal socialists/communists." The polarization of this country into two "sides" is extremely disheartening to me.



Yes, the villification of the opposing viewpoints is both sad and depressing. But it's going on here right now. There are posters on both sides of these issues that have shown little to no respect for their fellow board members.

Both sides believe their way to be better when the reality that both sides come off as whiners. But whatever, I think some folks need a little forced vacation from this board to get some maturity back, but that's not my call.


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 Post subject: Re: It will take a miracle . . .
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Willton, for the past year or so it has been amusing to joust with you here. It no longer is – a revelation that probably won’t come as a surprise.

Point-by-point rebuttals and the obsession with getting in the last word – often with a sneer and the impugning of others’ good faith – aren’t indicative of a superior intellect, which your style would suggest you believe you have. Like a temperamental child stamping his little foot, they are signs of immaturity. Hopefully they will dissipate as more of life’s challenges arrive at your doorstep.

I still wish you well.

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 Post subject: Re: It will take a miracle . . .
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:28 am 
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Well put Bob, I don't have any "issues" with Wilton either, I think its fun to debate the issues. One thing it does is forces me to look at the other side a little more and get perspective. I hope that folks don't let the debates about politics affect the comradery here because that would be unfortunate. We can argue about our differences but in the end we are all still Americans and all Pirates fans (at least the folks here). There should be no hard feelings.


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 Post subject: Re: It will take a miracle . . .
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Well put Bob, I don't have any "issues" with Wilton either, I think its fun to debate the issues. One thing it does is forces me to look at the other side a little more and get perspective. I hope that folks don't let the debates about politics affect the comradery here because that would be unfortunate. We can argue about our differences but in the end we are all still Americans and all Pirates fans (at least the folks here). There should be no hard feelings.


I couldn't agree more. In fact some of my best friends and I disagree vehemently on many of these same subjects. I think it's fun and will say it sometimes too easy to get some pf you guys going. I also think Bob has a right to be wrong anytime he wants (joke Bob-- don't get sassy with me).

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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