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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:26 pm 
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School districts and teacher err on the side of caution all the time. Personally I think this is due to society today. When I was a kid, if I got in trouble in school and someone called home, I caught @#$% when I got home too. Today, many parents automatically take up for their children without knowing the facts and regardless of the facts. I have two heavy bags for kids to use in the weight room and have boxing gloves for the kids to use with them. Just today, I had two 6th graders decide to use the gloves on each other. Of course the stock answer for the reason they did this was "they were playinng around". Unfortunately, it often results in one guy not thinking it is "playing around" and it escalates into a fight. I called home to each set of parents. One father of one of the students who really never gets in trouble was supportive and understood the reasoning. The other, the mother of the kid who started it and is regularly in trouble, immediately stood up for the kid and defended his behavior. Teachers and districts have been conditioned to over react over the years to CYA. Fortunate or unfortunate, that is what we live with.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:57 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
With respect to other side of the story:
1. If the school did nothing and the kid attempted suicide and this picture would be found, would there be any criticism of the school for doing nothing?


Depends on your expectations of schooling (whether it be public or private). Some people believe it's the school's job to act as secondary parent, others believe it's sole purpose is to teach, yet others believe it's somewhere in between. As for me, I believe that school is for learning, parenting is done at home. I diagree with the father in this case, he's trying to extract monetary compensation where, imo, it's not due. And I'll go one even futher and state that I believe the father's actions will end up hurting the kid more than the schools! In a tale of overreactionaries, the father is winning hands down.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
School districts and teacher err on the side of caution all the time. Personally I think this is due to society today. When I was a kid, if I got in trouble in school and someone called home, I caught @#$% when I got home too. Today, many parents automatically take up for their children without knowing the facts and regardless of the facts. I have two heavy bags for kids to use in the weight room and have boxing gloves for the kids to use with them. Just today, I had two 6th graders decide to use the gloves on each other. Of course the stock answer for the reason they did this was "they were playinng around". Unfortunately, it often results in one guy not thinking it is "playing around" and it escalates into a fight. I called home to each set of parents. One father of one of the students who really never gets in trouble was supportive and understood the reasoning. The other, the mother of the kid who started it and is regularly in trouble, immediately stood up for the kid and defended his behavior. Teachers and districts have been conditioned to over react over the years to CYA. Fortunate or unfortunate, that is what we live with.


Sound reasoning AZ, you are definitely more disposed to teaching than I!


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Some people believe it's the school's job to act as secondary parent


Most days, I do more parenting than teaching. Of course I teach PE not a core class. When I get in trouble, it is when I am parenting and the parents don't like how I parent. Well, they should have done a better job at home then. I have to teach most kids to say please and thank you. I have a sign on my office door. Please knock before entering my office. Wait for permission to enter. Use please and thank you in this office if you have a request. I ask students to read the door multiple times on a daily basis. Don't get it after the first read, you snooze, you lose.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:47 am 
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The parents of the troublemakers always defend their kids. Mostly because they taught them the behavior in the first damn place.

That's why it's good to be a military educator. No Parents.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
The parents of the troublemakers always defend their kids. Mostly because they taught them the behavior in the first damn place.

That's why it's good to be a military educator. No Parents.

Or a college educator: no parenting.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:35 am 
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It sure appears to be an over-reaction to a youngster's innocence. But of course, many in our country have attacked teachers for ignoring potential serious problems that are indicated by student actions that on their surface may have not seemed to be any kind of issue beyond the obvious. This, as indicated by No.9, is a no win for teachers. If a teacher errs on the side of protecting a child from self damage or future damage to other students, he has acting in the best interest of everyone.

Our recent history has made teachers very aware of student imbalance issues and have had many meetings and advise and policy directives from administrators to guard against kids hurting themselves or others because of their mental inclinations. Without knowing the intimate details of this issue it does appear to be strong medicine for what looks like a non issue.

The school district as all do today has determined to initiate strong protections for all kids. I suspect that often these good intentions are carried out in an overly active manner as seems to have happened here.

Unless I'm mistaken, there is no religious intend here, and may be someone seeking his own agenda. It will almost surely result in a law suit and money being awarded to the child and his family.

There is an underlying problem here that few outside of education consider. Since recent court rulings have indicated that all students need to be in the least restrictive environment for learning, most special students have been 'mainstreamed' into classes without special educators to meet their needs except as resourse teachers. The regular teacher without specific training is put in a very difficult situation. Most can and do fulfill these kids needs but it is very taxing.
Most special education classes had a much smaller teacher-student ratio which provided much more time for individual learning. In our state special needs kids are required to have an IEP (individual education prescription) written for them. But when these kids are part of a 25/35 student classroom someone's needs are not being met. There are only so many minutes in a class period. Major revision is needed in our whole system to properly handle all this and not ignore the needs of non-special needs kids.

There will be no solution because the only real answer is to lower the student-teacher ratio so that all kids receive the individual attention that they need. That would be cost prohibitive.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Good post sub. Great post in fact. I would add one thing from my personal experience. We have ED (Emotionally Disturbed) students mainstreamed in our class. UNtil a new director took over, they were always accompanied by an aid who would deal with issues concerning those students. New director feels they can be allowed to come to class un acompanied. which causes problems at times. I often find myself spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with these students to the detriment of the rest of the class. I have serious issues with this because I don't feel that the 30 other students should be not only exposed to the sometimes violent behavior of these students but should have their learning environment compromised. I also feel this way about chronically disruptive students and their effect on the learning environment. Just my two cents. I have 6 years left to retire and hope I make it in one piece.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:16 am 
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There's a much longer rant here on progressive teaching methods, but it's Christmas and I'll let it go.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Don't want an argument either but need to say that it's easy to declare how it should be. Those in the classroom realize that they are charged with helping kids.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: How would you have handled this?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:53 am 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Don't want an argument either but need to say that it's easy to declare how it should be. Those in the classroom realize that they are charged with helping kids.



Been there and done that.


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