Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:22 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:32 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3352
Location: Wheeling, WV
We need to re-read Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's travels and think about his thoughts on war and the reasons for fighting them.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:41 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:19 am
Posts: 1475
IA Pirate wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
The leaders of our country have so much more information at their fingertips than what FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC or any other network will ever realize. That my friends, is a good thing.


The government hiding information is a good thing? You kiddin' me? (Where's Coach Mora when you need him?)

In a sense what you are saying is true, IA. (I apologize.. the above quote looks to be Pirate13's but I think it's yours.) Clearly our government knows more, but they allow the corporations to control our media, and that's a conflict of interests to say the least. Journalists know what they can and can not say. Most of the reporters for alternative news outlets use to work for corporate owned media. I've heard them interviewed many times. They leave because their stories were constantly censored. Their former editors are in bed with the politicians and CEOs. The butt kissers (like Sam Donaldson and Cokie Roberts) stay and move up in the business.

The top men of the major networks belong to the same country clubs as Dubya and Clinton and Reagan and King Abdullah and other leaders.. like the presidents of Turkey (our ally!) who has killed more Kurds than Saddam. All that network news is garbage, IA. I know your wife is a reporter.. local news coverage is more trustworthy. But the national media? They don't tell us jack$hit of what really goes on.

What you are saying is that it's OK for our government to suppress the media. Or do you think the media is that inept? Reporters weren't so inept during the Vietnam War (back when journalists weren't forced to bunk with the military.) I'm telling you all that it's more than suppression.. it's outright manipulation.

And yes, sub, Gulliver's Travels is a good work. It's too bad he didn't get shipwrecked on one of those Tahitian islands where Gauguin relaxed, painting topless native girls all day.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
The government withholding information from the public is critical to the protection of this nation. Furthermore, much of the information would be useless to Americans anyway, but devastatingin the handsof our adversaries. Even Obama has scaled back his "transparency" because too much information to the public causes kaos and fear.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 4558
Location: Pittsburgh
Substitute2 wrote:
The discussion of politics always leaves me perplexed. I know how I feel and as much as I try, I can't see those of oppossing views to be honest about right and wrong. I'm sure there is that belief by the other side but I can't logically understand it. So, help me here if you are a Christian Conservative or graduate of the King Ronald school of 'moral majority'.

When we go to war without provacation like Iraq or Vietnam or Korea, how can it be moral? When we kill people and have our own killed for no good reason, it can't be right. Can it? I mean war is in fact the greatest of unchristain activities, isn't it? What can be worse then killing especially when the innocent are included in the carniage. Yet many American Christians proudly profess to supporting these actions. How can that be construed as morally correct?

How can it be morally correct to see our fellow citizens die early because they were denied health care? What makes the Christian Right think it is ok for us to continue this practice and even have it become worse as each year goes forward? How can that be morally correct? Can the attitude that it doesn't happen to me make it right? Is that something we should be proud of or perpetuate? Moral High Ground? These aren't even the lazy people or the unwilling to spend, it is in many cases people who have reached their cap or simply denied by insurance companies, or whose coverage doesn't include certain things, or who have lost their job and can't afford the cobra because it is most of their unemployment. Don't we have a moral oblogation to help these fellow Americans? Who cares if it makes the government bigger? Which choice is worse?

There are plenty of examples to show we have at times lost our moral rudder. I don't mean just the 60s here I mean imprisioning Americaan citizens during WWII because they were of Japanese desent, I mean allowing slavery to continue to exist for the first 75 years of our country with church approval, or recently trying to force Terry Shivo be kept from rest under some moral edict that she was alive? How can we argue that stem cell research which promises to help save lives by development of cures should be denied because it is the Christian thing to do. How can torturing people by our government ever be considered morally correct? How can good honest Americans deceive themselves into believing these activities are alright because we win if we do them? How can this be Christian?

We all look at the Salem witchcraft trials and executions as reprehensable behavior but folks it was done under the leadership of people who considered themselves to be extemely Chritian and thought they held the moral high ground. They were doing God's work?

So, you see, I have real difficulties understanding how good Americans who want to do the right thing, the Christian thing, the moral thing can give a pass to all these things becuse...? Why? I've tried to be honest here and hope that someone can explain why they think we have done the right thing in any of these things. What is morally correct?

Don't make the mistake of making equivalences of "moral" and "religious". One has little to do with the other.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:02 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
sisyphus wrote:
Don't make the mistake of making equivalences of "moral" and "religious". One has little to do with the other.


Your remark reminded me of my favorite quote on the topic, from Ghandi:

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:04 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3352
Location: Wheeling, WV
BBF wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Don't make the mistake of making equivalences of "moral" and "religious". One has little to do with the other.


Your remark reminded me of my favorite quote on the topic, from Ghandi:

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."


I've not heard that Ghandi line before. It is a memorable and pointed one.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Religion has started more wars than any reason in all of time.



Incorrect and very shallow. Greed and ego start wars. Religion is only used as convinient shroud to disguise people's true motivations.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6022
Haven't heard from you in a while Jeremy. Good to have you back.

Must respectfully disagree with you though. Greed and ego have played a part in some wars. Religion has been a catalyst throughout history though.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Haven't heard from you in a while Jeremy. Good to have you back.

Must respectfully disagree with you though. Greed and ego have played a part in some wars. Religion has been a catalyst throughout history though.



Has it really? Or is it just that clever leaders have been able to use religion to mobilize the masses?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:13 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6022
Good point. I would however refer to the many Crusades, and any other conflict involving the middle east area. Also wars to prevent the godless hoard from the east ie. communism. You make a good point though.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Good point. I would however refer to the many Crusades, and any other conflict involving the middle east area. Also wars to prevent the godless hoard from the east ie. communism. You make a good point though.



You need to really read about the Crusades. A good number of them were led by young English lords looking for something to do. There were also commerical considerations to the Arabs controlling that part of the world at the time. The bulk of the armies might have been motivated by religion, but their leaders were motivated by other concerns.

And if you're not using religion, you're using ethnicity or nationalism.

In any event, this thread is just another useless "Let's bash people we don't agree with because don't agree with them" one. You find them everywhere on the internet and they're just as pointless as this one.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:37 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6022
Who are we bashing? :? :?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Who are we bashing? :? :?


Religious folks

Conservatives

Take your pick. Quite frankly I've gotten a bit tired of the liberal left in American constantly whining. The Veterans Day thread attracts 3 responses but a thread who's sole purpose appears to be bashing conservatives is three pages long.

Think about that.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:05 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3352
Location: Wheeling, WV
Jeremy, ole buddy, I'm the guy who started the Veterens Day thread and as I'm sure you know I'm pretty liberal. Can I also love America or must I be, as Fox constantly says, unpatriotic and against America?

One of my biggest issues with the right is that somehow they think the own patriotism and love of country. THEY DO NOT. As a matter of fact Rush and his ilk now hope our President and our country fail. How patriotic is that?

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Substitute2 wrote:
Jeremy, ole buddy, I'm the guy who started the Veterens Day thread and as I'm sure you know I'm pretty liberal. Can I also love America or must I be, as Fox constantly says, unpatriotic and against America?

One of my biggest issues with the right is that somehow they think the own patriotism and love of country. THEY DO NOT. As a matter of fact Rush and his ilk now hope our President and our country fail. How patriotic is that?



When President Bush was in office, the elements of the Progressives in America didn't let an opportunity pass to tell everyone how they disagreed with him and that their dissent was patriotic. Conservatives called their dissent unpatriotic. Now that President Obama is in office, elements of the Conservatives in America don't let an opportunity pass to tell everyone how they disagree with him and that their dissent is patriotic. And amazingly enough, Proegressives call that dissent unpatriotic.

Do you see the hypocrisy here?

And to be honest with you Sub, your Progressive friends made this bed. Now you all have to lie in it. It's not an illusion that 60% of the military is registered Republican. And it's not like I let Conservatives off the hook here. A yellow ribbon on your SUV isn't patriotism. Paying your taxes isn't patriotism. I'm an action guy. Show me something you're doing that's patiotic. Stop trying to redefine patriotism so you feel better about yourself. That goes for all political stripes.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3352
Location: Wheeling, WV
You make a good point.

Conversely, shouldn't right wingers be considered hypocritic for taking the all against America view that they now present.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
Substitute2 wrote:
You make a good point.

Conversely, shouldn't right wingers be considered hypocritic for taking the all against America view that they now present.



YES!! Which was kind of my point. The way they're acting now, both the Progressives and Conservatives are hypocrites. All I'm asking is that people open their eyes to the hypocrisy and try to rise above it.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:04 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6022
Jeremy wrote:
The way they're acting now, both the Progressives and Conservatives are hypocrites.

That is exactly why I am registered independent.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
And Independents have been quietly pulling up stakes from the left and moving right over the last 12 months or so.

The Democrats are going to be in for quite a shock when November rolls around and all those Independents who voted for Obama are now voting for the GOP or staying home. Hell, most Progressives I know don't believe in Independents anyway.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: The Moral High Ground
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:07 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6022
It is the fringe nutcases on both the left and right who play the "patriot" card. Most everyone else is in the middle and have their hats on straight.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits