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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:05 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I think you must be arguing for the sake arguing here.


Pretty much.

ZelieMike wrote:
This one is easy. Freedom of speech is political speech only. It does not apply to a private company with employees under contractual terms fo employment.


True, but as far as I know that only applies to the federal government. There are numerous cases at the state level which have been overturned at the federal one. Many involving teachers and whether or not their speech is covered under "contractual" terms or private citizen ones. I find this to be an incredibly slippery slope.

Freedom: the condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints

Speech: the act of delivering a formal spoken communication to an audience

These two definitions, when viewed as a whole, do not exist, at least in the purest sense. I think many people incorrectly view it this way however. That's really the point of my initial post.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:48 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Lets see...the guy has great ratings...highest for sports talk in Pgh. For those of you who "hate" him or think they should " fire" him, who would replace him that brings in the revenue? Howard Stern had similar issues. If you dont like him, dont listen.
But thats just it.....people who hate him..still listen. Go figure.

No, I most certainly do NOT listen to him, and I haven't done so since shortly after he took to the airwaves. So go figure.

I don't give a damn who replaces him. I don't give a damn if they lose enough revenue to go out of business entirely. That station lost me forever because it took them so long to figure out what was obvious to me in his first week on the air. Or, as is more likely, they figured it out right away, but chose to pursue the vulgar jackass audience and whatever advertising dollars it would bring. Either way, it was their choice, just as firing him was their choice. I congratulate them for making the right decision. Too bad they waited too long to make it.

By the way, even in his own wet dreams, Madden is no Howard Stern.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:52 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
Madden is trashy but entertaining, but Kennedy is a sacred cow that he should have known not to mess with.

It's kind of interesting that Smizik got Madden fired.


A media soap opera. Madden ripped Smizik all the time. I'm sure Smizik was just waiting for the chance to do what he did. It was not untill after Smizik's media article about how the station manager seemed to tolerate what Madden said that any action was taken

Madden may be out in Pgh. 104.7, 105.9, 102.5 and 970AM are all Clear Channel owned. The Steelers have a big influence and only if Madden was toned down(doubt he'd do that)would they offer him a spot. KDKA dumped sports talk except for weekends. Unless a non clearchannel station wants to add a shock jock sports talk show as part of their programming, Madden may be history in Pgh.

So let him go back to wrestling. It's where he really belongs, anyhow.

Oh, I forgot, he got fired from that gig, too. Too vulgar for wrestling. So vulgar that he was fired in spite of high ratings. Should make for a nice resume.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:57 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Maybe this guy IS the climate and attitude of the town. His ratings would indicate that.


And Howard Stern the climate and attitude of the country?
There has been a lack of respect climate in general for the last 15-20 years. The line of free speech seems to keep being lowered and lowered. I'm not sure where the line needs to be. All I know is when a kid pops off, you better think twice about what you say or do. I've seen too many cases where a kid can be a be a complete jerk and if you say or do something as an adult, you're the one in trouble.

The line of free speech? This has nothing to do with free speech. It is a corporation making a decision from which it hopes to benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:00 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Freedom of speech is a canard.

No it isn't. It simply does not apply in this case. He was fired by a private corporation, not jailed by the government.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:05 pm 
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I find it EXTREMELY hypocritical that ESPN fired Madden for his comments. It wasn't too long ago that ESPN's own Dana Jacobson said, "F*** Touchdown Jesus and F*** Notre Dame" at the Mike & Mike roast. She got suspended but not fired, and I was fine with that punishment.

I've lived in Pittsburgh for almost a year now, and I really enjoyed listening to Madden. I am not a Steeler or Penguin fan, but I loved the fact that Madden did not drop to his knees and worship all things Hines Ward/Big Ben like the majority of the community does.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:07 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I will admit, I like Senator Kennedy as much as a pimple on my rear-end, but there are things that should remain unsaid. So Madden doesn't like Kennedy either, but comments such as those don't generally hurt the target, they hurt the loved ones around the target. Just classless, thoughtless, and self serving.

"Freedom of speech" doesn't protect you from being a jaggoff and it doesn't protect you from losing your job, I don't think I read that anywhere in our constitution. The employer should have the right to dump an employee if they do not feel as though the employee is representing their best interests.

Being that ESPN is a "New England" based company, and Kennedy is a representative of that area, they had no choice but to fire him.

If Madden were fired for those comments, then ESPN could be sued by Madden. What he said was highly offensive, even if said in the context of a joke. However, what he said was not legally obscene, thus it is protected by the 1st Amendment. ESPN can surely fire him, but Madden would have the Bill of Rights on his side in a lawsuit.


I would suggest that you leave the law to the lawyers, because you're making yourself look awful foolish here. The Bill of Rights protects citizens from the government. It has nothing to do with contracts between individuals and their employers.

Quote:
While ESPN owns the station, the station does not own the airwaves. The people, i.e. the citizens of the USA own the airwaves. To be found legally obscene, and thus making Madden completely in the wrong, the current definition of legally obscene is as follows:

The Supreme Court must find the comments Worthless "utterly without redeeming social importance" or sexually lewd. Obviously the comments weren't sexually lewd, but it could be argued they were worthless. However, the comments were made in a joking fashion, and even as so would still possibly have a redeeming social importance.

Jay Leno, Letterman take shots all the time.

You might have a point if the FCC had ordered Madden off the air. That isn't what happened. He was fired by his employer.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:56 pm 
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All those saying that "freedom of speech" has nothing to do with this are correct. The 1st Amendment protects individuals from being punished by the government for the things they say. It does not protect employees of private companies from getting fired by their employers based upon the things they say. The FCC did not push ESPN to fire Madden, and ESPN is not a government entity. This was a private company deciding that it did not want someone who says distasteful things about Massachussetts senators to represent the company in the Pittsburgh locale. It's no different from a sales company firing a sales agent for wearing inappropriate clothing (and by inappropriate, I mean jeans and a T-shirt), even though that clothing can be seen as a form of expression protected under the 1st Amendment.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:56 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Freedom of speech is a canard.

No it isn't. It simply does not apply in this case. He was fired by a private corporation, not jailed by the government.



Why do you assume my comment was directed at the government and the 1st Amendment? Maybe, just maybe it was directed at those who think "freedom of speech" is a free pass to say whatever they want?


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:08 am 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Freedom of speech is a canard.

No it isn't. It simply does not apply in this case. He was fired by a private corporation, not jailed by the government.



Why do you assume my comment was directed at the government and the 1st Amendment? Maybe, just maybe it was directed at those who think "freedom of speech" is a free pass to say whatever they want?

If so, then we agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:05 am 
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You people are way, way too sensitive. Do any of you, in your honest to God truth, think Kennedy cares? Isn't that what matters? Does it matter what IA Pirate thinks or what any other idiot listener thinks? Grow a pair people. It's getting pathetic that years an years of people working their asses off can take a plunge because of six second of a radio show.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:14 am 
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Argentum wrote:
Why do you assume my comment was directed at the government and the 1st Amendment? Maybe, just maybe it was directed at those who think "freedom of speech" is a free pass to say whatever they want?

sisyphus wrote:
If so, then we agree.


We agree. My comment was intentionally vague.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:42 pm 
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ESPN has every right to fire Mr. Madden. I for one gave him a month or two when he came on the air. I often found him intriguing and thought provoking. However too many times he came across crass and venomous. He attacked people unnecessarily.

I am personally pleased that he is gone. I do not listen to talk radio much anyway, sport or other wise. I find most of it to uncivil. My guess is for a while they will move people around at the station and an empty spot will be a syndicated show.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:49 pm 
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I take the approach that Rush and guys like him are idiots (Madden included) and I dont listen to them because of that...say what they want is fine.
They pump themselves up as being better than the rest of America, yet Rush is nothing but a pill popping celebrity like the rest of them...
And you dont make fun of someone with cancer!!!

I hate them all, and would love to punch each one in the mouth for it...

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:48 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
If Madden were fired for those comments, then ESPN could be sued by Madden. What he said was highly offensive, even if said in the context of a joke. However, what he said was not legally obscene, thus it is protected by the 1st Amendment. ESPN can surely fire him, but Madden would have the Bill of Rights on his side in a lawsuit.


Bull -
Don't quit your day job . . . your legal analysis could not be more inaccurate.
The 1st Amendment and the Bill of Rights offer him absolutely zero protection in this instance. At best, Madden would have a contract claim if he had a contract with ESPN and it governed termination. Otherwise, Madden is simply an "at will" employee. Because he was not fired due to his age, race, disability, religion or some other protected class, he has no valid claim for wrongful termination.
Now . . . if the FCC forced ESPN to fire Madden to get him off the air, then ESPN and Madden might have a 1st Amendment claim. That would be the government potentially trying to exercise control over what is broadcast over the airwaves.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:25 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
You people are way, way too sensitive. Do any of you, in your honest to God truth, think Kennedy cares? Isn't that what matters? Does it matter what IA Pirate thinks or what any other idiot listener thinks? Grow a pair people. It's getting pathetic that years an years of people working their asses off can take a plunge because of six second of a radio show.


Madden hasn't worked his ass off. He's a gimmick guy the same as Colin Cowherd. I'm glad he's gone and I hope he never comes back.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:18 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
You people are way, way too sensitive. Do any of you, in your honest to God truth, think Kennedy cares? Isn't that what matters? Does it matter what IA Pirate thinks or what any other idiot listener thinks? Grow a pair people. It's getting pathetic that years an years of people working their asses off can take a plunge because of six second of a radio show.


Madden hasn't worked his ass off. He's a gimmick guy the same as Colin Cowherd. I'm glad he's gone and I hope he never comes back.


uh oh...your hope may be crushed very soon
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08196/896918-194.stm

and here is an old write up that describes your gimmick guy
you like it you love it you want more of it

http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20 ... adden2.asp

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden is suspended...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:40 am 
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http://www.timesonline.com/articles/200 ... 614139.txt

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