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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Wilton, I just knew you were going to skim over the entire basis of my argument and beliefs and focus on the 5 years it for Bill Thomas or Peterson or whatever. I left that in just to see what you would do, and you proved me right.

Did you? You wanted me to shoot down the credibility of the author who wrote the basis of what you believe in? That's odd, because most people tend to not want the credibility of their authorities tarnished and usually preempt such an argumentative device.

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Simply put, when a viable argument or point is brought to your attention, you deflect and hurl an insult. You are no better than any of those guys over at CIA. No better...

What basis? You quoted a guy that talked about his belief that socio-economic divides do not exist in this country, especially regarding race. How does that have anything to do with the stimulus bill?

Not only was Mr. Peterson's article ignorant, but it was also wholly irrelevant to the conversation. It deserved to be lampooned.

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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Additionally, the point wasn't a moral one, but again, you take a viable argument and spin it to make it work for your rebuttle. I don't condemn folks for buying alcohol and cigarettes(drugs are another story), but what kind of stimulus is that going to create?

One where people are spending money to support local businesses, like drug stores, pharmacies, liquor stores, convenient stores, grocery stores, restaurants, bars, night clubs, and other establishments that sell alcohol, tobacco, and drugs. For better or worse, our economy is significantly invested in those types of establishments.

And again, you are assuming that low-income families will ONLY spend on those items. While lower-income folks may be more likely to buy those items, that does not mean that those items are the ONLY things these people will buy. Some may use that money to pay for bills, food, children's school items, or other discretionary things that they could not afford.

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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
If a business owner gets a big chunk of money that is not directly related to the fruits of his employees' labor, why would that cause him to hire more people?


So apply this to an out-of-work deadbeat who enjoys living off of what the government provides him.

If a deadbeat gets a big chunk of money that is not directly related to the fruits of his labor, why would that cause him to seek a proper job to help bring him out of poverty?

I don't think it would. But then, I don't think that the stimulus bill does that. The Making Work Pay tax credit appears to be conditioned on having a job, so the problem you present does not appear to be involved. But if you think that the stimulus bill is giving a free handout to deadbeats, feel free to show me.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:11 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
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Really? Are my numbers skewed? Can you show me without making unintelligent jabs at whoever you deem to be a liberal democrat?


You mean you aren't? That's such a waste because I have you pegged as a card carrying member...

The only organization of which I am a card-carrying member is the American Intellectual Property Law Association. I am a GDI, or God-Damned Independent, and I have been for the past 3 years. The fact that I don't agree with your extremist views does not mean that I am a shill for the Democratic Party.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Really? Are my numbers skewed? Can you show me without making unintelligent jabs at whoever you deem to be a liberal democrat?


You mean you aren't? That's such a waste because I have you pegged as a card carrying member...

The only organization of which I am a card-carrying member is the American Intellectual Property Law Association. I am a GDI, or God-Damned Independent, and I have been for the past 3 years. The fact that I don't agree with your extremist views does not mean that I am a shill for the Democratic Party.



Now I've heard everything. I have yet to see you take a position that was anything but ultra liberal.


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:41 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
The only organization of which I am a card-carrying member is the American Intellectual Property Law Association. I am a GDI, or God-Damned Independent, and I have been for the past 3 years. The fact that I don't agree with your extremist views does not mean that I am a shill for the Democratic Party.


Now I've heard everything. I have yet to see you take a position that was anything but ultra liberal.

That's because everything is binary to you: either somebody's position is conservative or ultra liberal. You've apparently never heard of a moderate; otherwise you would have understood why Obama won the election.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:04 am 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
The only organization of which I am a card-carrying member is the American Intellectual Property Law Association. I am a GDI, or God-Damned Independent, and I have been for the past 3 years. The fact that I don't agree with your extremist views does not mean that I am a shill for the Democratic Party.


Now I've heard everything. I have yet to see you take a position that was anything but ultra liberal.

That's because everything is binary to you: either somebody's position is conservative or ultra liberal. You've apparently never heard of a moderate; otherwise you would have understood why Obama won the election.



YOU'RE NOT A MODERATE!


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:09 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
YOU'RE NOT A MODERATE!

How would you know?

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:21 am 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
YOU'RE NOT A MODERATE!

How would you know?



Because you have never once taken a position on this board that's even close to being moderate. As far as this board is concerned, you're a far left liberal pretending to be something else. It would be sad if it weren't for the fact that you're in training to be a professional liar.


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:59 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
YOU'RE NOT A MODERATE!

How would you know?


Because you have never once taken a position on this board that's even close to being moderate. As far as this board is concerned, you're a far left liberal pretending to be something else. It would be sad if it weren't for the fact that you're in training to be a professional liar.

Ah, let's take a dig at my profession; always a favorite. I suppose I could call you a professional killer in the same token.

On a board that appears to be dominated by conservative minds, the most outspoken of which (you and PF13) appear to be extremists, I suppose I'm not surprised that I'm labeled a crazy, far-left, America-hating, socialist liberal. But again, I don't live in the binary world that you do. And I'm pretty sure we have not spoken exhaustively about every political issue on this board, so I believe that your perception of my political views is suffering from a small-sample size.

But if you want to call me ultra-liberal, that's fine. I'm sure that it will help you sleep at night.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:13 pm 
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And how am I an extremist? What have I said to invoke claims that I am an extremist? Is it because I don't support any of your Liberal, I'm sorry, moderate views?

What exactly makes you a moderate? Virtually everything that you and I have discussed has seen you on the Liberal path. Exactly what conservative belief do you stand behind that would equalize the leftist beliefs that encompass your arguments?

I am sure your not too offended about being called a "professional liar," frankly it pays well and can be very empowering. Even though lawyers don't lie, they tend to bend the truth and facts to help sell their position. Am I right? I just see much of that through your arguments, hey, but that is ok. Debating with you is challenging and educational, and if you have some malice or dislike for me, that is your problem, not mine. I don't dislike you at all, but I do dislike much of your views.


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Guys, attack the argument, not the person.

Have a good day. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
And how am I an extremist? What have I said to invoke claims that I am an extremist? Is it because I don't support any of your Liberal, I'm sorry, moderate views?

Well, advocating torture certainly seems to me to be extremist. Blaming the media for everything that's wrong in this world appears to me to be extremist. Accusing our current president of treason appears to me to be extremist. Thinking that I want to place the rights of criminals above those of civilians appears to me to be extremist. Thinking that liberals despise the Constitution appears to me to be extremist. Thinking that I want to promote socialsim seems to me to be extremist. Shall I go on?

Quote:
What exactly makes you a moderate? Virtually everything that you and I have discussed has seen you on the Liberal path. Exactly what conservative belief do you stand behind that would equalize the leftist beliefs that encompass your arguments?

Well, free market economics and the 2nd Amendment, for starters. But I don't have time to go into a diatribe about my political beliefs; you'll just have to see how they manifest themselves as we discuss stuff.

Quote:
I am sure your not too offended about being called a "professional liar," frankly it pays well and can be very empowering. Even though lawyers don't lie, they tend to bend the truth and facts to help sell their position. Am I right? I just see much of that through your arguments, hey, but that is ok. Debating with you is challenging and educational, and if you have some malice or dislike for me, that is your problem, not mine. I don't dislike you at all, but I do dislike much of your views.

I do not harbor any dislike for you personally. However, I do have a problem with the way you present your arguments. You present them as if they are infallible and treat anything that is contrary to your argument as completely wrong-headed, as if it would be absolutely insane to hold such an opinion. I also get tired of you distorting opposing arguments to say things that are not being said. That's not how people have intelligent discussion.

If I sound angry or demeaning in any way, I'm sorry, but I often feel like I have to speak like that because I'm getting the same type of discourse from the other side.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Chavez wins vote to scrap term limits
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:51 pm 
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I do have to add that I have a lot of friends who would pee themselves laughing at the thought of me being a conservative.

Have a great day.


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