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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:07 pm 
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I was going to reply to Jeremy, but I'll just sign on to AZBF's comment. I will say one thing: allowing housing growth to go unchecked sounds like an old saw of conservatives, not liberals. You know, that whole laissez-faire thing...

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
Az's plight should not become a political football guys. I have been a teacher for 39 years. First 34 in the classroom and now what my user name says because I voluntarily retired at 57.

Couple of questions for Az: Don't you guys have seniority? Aren't people hired and fired based on something other then the wim of a principal? Shame on you guys for allowing that to happen to the good teachers in AZ.

I've seen many principals and know that many of them have no ability to know who's a good teacher and who is not. They tend to think the one who bothers them least is the best. Both the Fine Arts and Physical Education and Health are important and kids need both. Looks like your system doesn't value PE very much.

It probably surprises people to hear the music is so highly regarded. You are exactly right. They have the most active parents who raise a lot of money for the band. They make sure that their kids don't get short changed, and they are there immediately to complain if another program gets something that they don't. Good people but like a little paranoid in this area.

I fill in for over 100 teachers every year and can testify that like everything else there are good and bad. Just like there are good and bad administrators. The important issue for education is how to determine the best or in this case the worst teacher. Test scores of kids are not at all fair. The teacher with the more gifted students will look better consistantly. No way test scores can determine who is the best.

Good luck AZ

You need to develop a fair system for cutbacks that treats everyone fairly. If all things are equal or close, there has to be a criteria for making these important decisions. Sorry to hear you are in this predicament and wish you luck. For reading your posts I am confident that you are a competent teacher, and I feel for you.

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:10 pm 
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AZ can kiss my ass.

It's good to know you hate the military.....at least you have the stones to admit it. And I didn't know you hated the military Wilton, but it comes as little surprise to me.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Jeremy you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I hate the military. A strong military is crucial to the defense and safety of our country. I hate the war that we are involved in. The military is simply a pawn of the government. They have a mission and when assigned ;they do it. It is not for them to determine the validity or the value of the mission but to simply carry out the mission. I see that you haven't disputed anything I said about the political make up of Az. That said, I would never lower myself to the level of personal attack that you have made. Amazing how easy it is to make statements like you have towards me behind the veil of the internet. Take a chill pill man. Life is too short to stroke out over something like this. Besides in the big picture we are nearly powerless to make a real difference in what the government does. By the way, I am a registered independent and no apologist for either party.

Sub, Arizona is a right to work state. Our union is powerless in any dispute such as the one you speak of. Our school board could come to us and say take a 20% pay cut and it is basically a take it or leave it proposition. There is no policy for who gets moved when the position is eliminated. It does allow for the administrator to get rid of an incompetent employee if need be. I am fortunate in that I do work for a good boss who came in and cleaned this inner city school up. Retired Marine major who is a good guy but no nonsense. He tells good stories too.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:36 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
AZ can kiss my ass.

It's good to know you hate the military.....at least you have the stones to admit it. And I didn't know you hated the military Wilton, but it comes as little surprise to me.

Go ahead, take another swing at your straw man, Jeremy! It must be fun to argue when you manufacture the other side's position from whole cloth.

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:02 am 
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Quote:
And.....the amount of money being spent on this war in Iraq has caused the national deficit to grow to nearly obscene levels. If you don't believe that you must be part ostrich. Of course you are military so you love the spending in that regard.


Yeah.......I'm the one putting words in people's mouths.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:17 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Quote:
And.....the amount of money being spent on this war in Iraq has caused the national deficit to grow to nearly obscene levels. If you don't believe that you must be part ostrich. Of course you are military so you love the spending in that regard.


Yeah.......I'm the one putting words in people's mouths.

Calling out your bias does not equal hating the military. Claiming that the Iraq war is bankrupting the economy does not equal hating the military. You claiming otherwise is outlandish and wholly unreasonable. Stop erecting strawmen.

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:19 am 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Quote:
And.....the amount of money being spent on this war in Iraq has caused the national deficit to grow to nearly obscene levels. If you don't believe that you must be part ostrich. Of course you are military so you love the spending in that regard.


Yeah.......I'm the one putting words in people's mouths.

Calling out your bias does not equal hating the military. Claiming that the Iraq war is bankrupting the economy does not equal hating the military. You claiming otherwise is outlandish and wholly unreasonable. Stop erecting strawmen.



Get back to me when you understand what you're talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:25 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Calling out your bias does not equal hating the military. Claiming that the Iraq war is bankrupting the economy does not equal hating the military. You claiming otherwise is outlandish and wholly unreasonable. Stop erecting strawmen.



Get back to me when you understand what you're talking about.

The above is more evidence that no one can have a reasoned conversation or argument with Jeremy. He makes strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks whenever he can.

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Maybe someday you'll understand what a strawman argument is.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
...Sub, Arizona is a right to work state. Our union is powerless in any dispute such as the one you speak of. Our school board could come to us and say take a 20% pay cut and it is basically a take it or leave it proposition. There is no policy for who gets moved when the position is eliminated. It does allow for the administrator to get rid of an incompetent employee if need be. I am fortunate in that I do work for a good boss who came in and cleaned this inner city school up. Retired Marine major who is a good guy but no nonsense. He tells good stories too.



Strikes me as an interesting dichotomy AZ. As the first family member NOT to be either a teacher or steel worker, I do get exposed to some inner workings of the teachers in PA, and Delaware where my sister works.

Much of their issues seem to stem not so much from whether the state legislature will or will not raise taxes, but rather to how much involvement the feds push on the school in the name of "no child left behind", among many others. The available capital seems to be directed to meeting a number of unfunded mandates rather than, say maintaining the PE or art departments.

Am I wrong about this?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Back to the topic ... all states, not just Arizona, cut physical education curriculum as a first cost-saving measure. Presently in California, grade schools have no supervised PE. Recess is considered effective for "physical activity."

High schools used to require 4 years of PE, but now require 2.

And we wonder why freaking kids are getting Type II diabetes and we are becoming grotesquely fat as a nation ....

And oh yeah. The people making these decisions might want to look at the origins of formalized education in ancient Greece. The Greeks believed that a fit body was required for education, and mandated physical activity as part of the education system.

2500 years later, a research report shows that moderate to heavy physical activity at least 3x week results in better concentration, better retention of material, better test scores and a better education.

What a surprise. Physical activity is good for you, and good for education.*

*I am fortunate that Mrs. Bucfan was a very athletic woman in her youth, and enthusiatically signed up our children for physical activities. I am pleased to report that Bucfan's two kids are both varsity letter winners, multiple times, who also regularly appear on the Dean's list and honor rolls.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:43 am 
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But hey, we require X number of hours of "volunteer" work in order to graduate as well.


Yeah for socially engineered education.


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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:56 am 
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Az,

What would happen to a teacher who had their class start the day with jumping jacks, or a short Tie Chi lesson? Or, what if that teacher offered such to start the day?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:09 pm 
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They would probably get some flak from above. Not part of the curriculum.


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 Post subject: Who Needs PE Teachers???
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Kids can learn wii in computer class.

Just kidding by the way. It's a shame how many kids have played stuff on wii and never played in real life!

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 Post subject: Re: It's hitting the fan........
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:09 pm 
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"Our childrens do learn."

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