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Who's watching the inaguration?
Poll ended at Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:41 am
I might watch some of it. 38%  38%  [ 3 ]
I have to work. 38%  38%  [ 3 ]
I already have my cold beer and pretzels ready. 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 8
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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:40 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Believe me, migrant workers are not plotting terrorist activities. You can take the tin foil hat off now.


No, terrorists are just crossing the border with them.

Do you have any evidence of this?

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Believe me, migrant workers are not plotting terrorist activities. You can take the tin foil hat off now.


No, terrorists are just crossing the border with them.

Do you have any evidence of this?



Two different television stations in Tucson did reports on border security while I was stationed down there and both found Coyotes that reported taking groups of Middle Eastern men across the border.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57289

http://islamanazi.com/2006/08/24/islamic-terrorists-are-pouring-in-from-mexico/

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/001640.html

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2007/08/terror_on_the_b.html

But tell you what Wilton, you stick with the naive "they're just victims" line. We need someone who lets us know what the Democratic Party line is.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Willton wrote:
What M-13?


You claim knowledge of illegal immigrantion control that does not include border security, and claim that terrorists cannot/will not cross.. and yet you don't know who the M-13 are?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Do you mean MS-13?


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:30 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Two different television stations in Tucson did reports on border security while I was stationed down there and both found Coyotes that reported taking groups of Middle Eastern men across the border.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57289

http://islamanazi.com/2006/08/24/islamic-terrorists-are-pouring-in-from-mexico/

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/001640.html

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2007/08/terror_on_the_b.html

But tell you what Wilton, you stick with the naive "they're just victims" line. We need someone who lets us know what the Democratic Party line is.

First of all, in the future please do not cite World Nut Daily if you want to be taken seriously. Find a reputable source to support your conclusions.

Second, your remaining links are blogs, not news sources, and they either contain broken links to purported news stories or mere opinions that terrorists could cross the border, despite the lack of any evidence that terrorists do cross the border. Real convincing.

Have any of these purported terrorists been prosecuted? Because if they really are terrorists, then there has to be some evidence that proves as much, not just the bare fact that these people are middle-eastern.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Do you mean MS-13?

I had no idea who they were until I googled them. It appears that MS-13 is a criminal gang, not a terrorist hub. But feel free to convince me otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Do you mean MS-13?

I had no idea who they were until I googled them. It appears that MS-13 is a criminal gang, not a terrorist hub. But feel free to convince me otherwise.



You just ALL credibility.

But please, feel free to continue to preach the Democratic Party line on this board. It's the onlt exposure to that particular brand of insanity that I get.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Believe me, migrant workers are not plotting terrorist activities. You can take the tin foil hat off now.


No, terrorists are just crossing the border with them.

Do you have any evidence of this?


Quite frankly, I would rather be proactive than reactive. In other words, prove to me that terrorists could NOT use the Mexican border as an easy and efficient means to enter our country, and then I will agree that we have no need to protect said border.

Its hard to provide evidence when you don't know WHO the hell is crossing the border.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Do you mean MS-13?

I had no idea who they were until I googled them. It appears that MS-13 is a criminal gang, not a terrorist hub. But feel free to convince me otherwise.


Their roots are in Salvdoran Narco-terror. They've been linked to Islamic terror groups, possibly just for the money, maybe not.

The point is that they are a violent, probably THE most violent group in the US right now, and they simply walked across the border.

I always find it amazing how one of few constitutionally-mandated governmental services, security, is dismissed as unnecessary, while millions of others fabricated in thin air, are absolutely necessary.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Do you mean MS-13?

I had no idea who they were until I googled them. It appears that MS-13 is a criminal gang, not a terrorist hub. But feel free to convince me otherwise.



You just ALL credibility.

First, learn how to write. "You just ALL credibility" is not a sentence.

Second, I don't claim to know much about these people in the first place, so I suppose me telling you stuff about MS-13 shouldn't have much credibility. But then, you aren't putting forth any information on them either. So if I'm so incredible, why don't you enlighten me? I'm sorry if I don't believe bald assertions coming from someone who thinks Pedro Martinez is a clubhouse cancer without evidence.

Jeremy wrote:
But please, feel free to continue to preach the Democratic Party line on this board. It's the onlt exposure to that particular brand of insanity that I get.

I'm insane? You're the one saying I should fear for my life every chance that I get. You are the one appearing to say that we should sacrifice all of our freedoms in order to beef up security. You'll have to excuse me if I don't cower in fear just because someone on the internet says I should.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:40 pm 
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When did I ask you to give up some of your freedoms?

That sounds like a strawman argument to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
When did I ask you to give up some of your freedoms?

That sounds like a strawman argument to me.

A fair point, I got a little excited. My bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:50 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
No, terrorists are just crossing the border with them.

Do you have any evidence of this?


Quite frankly, I would rather be proactive than reactive. In other words, prove to me that terrorists could NOT use the Mexican border as an easy and efficient means to enter our country, and then I will agree that we have no need to protect said border.

A fair point, but that is far different from saying that terrorists are crossing the border. Jeremy posits that terrorist are crossing the border as a result of poor security. Unfortunately his evidence is as flimsy as his position. The idea that terrorist could be crossing the border does not mean that they are doing so.

And further, I'm not saying that we have no need to protect the border. I'm saying that the proposed solution (a giant wall) is a bad idea.

BBF wrote:
Its hard to provide evidence when you don't know WHO the hell is crossing the border.

Well then he shouldn't take the position that terrorists are crossing the border. It's an unfounded accusation that lacks credibility.

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~H. L. Mencken


Last edited by Willton on Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:52 pm 
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At some point, we all need to decide for ourselves what the proper balance of freedom and security is.

Understand that I'm not a fan of the last 8 years in this country. I'm a Conservative who blasted the Patriot Act as un-American and draconian. But at the end of the day, I will ALWAYS err on the side of security. Maybe it's because I am a Conservative or maybe it's because I'm a father. But that's where I'm coming from. I hope you can understand that.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Here's the link to the report I mentioned.

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2172749

Dismiss it if you choose, but don't claim I didn't provide it to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:36 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
At some point, we all need to decide for ourselves what the proper balance of freedom and security is.

Understand that I'm not a fan of the last 8 years in this country. I'm a Conservative who blasted the Patriot Act as un-American and draconian. But at the end of the day, I will ALWAYS err on the side of security. Maybe it's because I am a Conservative or maybe it's because I'm a father. But that's where I'm coming from. I hope you can understand that.

That I understand. What I propose is that we try and find a more thoughtful approach to whatever problems illegal immigration poses than simply building a giant wall that would run the distance between New York City and Chicago while shooting anything that moves near said wall. Isolationism is not the answer, and neither is senseless bloodshed.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
At some point, we all need to decide for ourselves what the proper balance of freedom and security is.

Understand that I'm not a fan of the last 8 years in this country. I'm a Conservative who blasted the Patriot Act as un-American and draconian. But at the end of the day, I will ALWAYS err on the side of security. Maybe it's because I am a Conservative or maybe it's because I'm a father. But that's where I'm coming from. I hope you can understand that.

That I understand. What I propose is that we try and find a more thoughtful approach to whatever problems illegal immigration poses than simply building a giant wall that would run the distance between New York City and Chicago while shooting anything that moves near said wall. Isolationism is not the answer, and neither is senseless bloodshed.



I don't like the idea of a giant wall/fence either. I think it's a waste of taxpayer money and highly impractical.

That being said, something needs to be done. Living in Arizona for the last 5 years has taught me that it isn't always the obvious problems that become the worst problems. A guest work program where immigrants are allowed to live and work in the US for a set number of years while not having to become citizens and paying taxes is a good idea. I do oppose making the process of citizenship easier and I oppose amnesty.

Becoming an American should be something that you have to earn. Not something that's given to you by the stroke of a pen.


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Willton wrote:
A fair point, but that is far different from saying that terrorists are crossing the border. Jeremy posits that terrorist are crossing the border as a result of poor security. Unfortunately his evidence is as flimsy as his position....

And this.

... The idea that terrorist could be crossing the border does not mean that they are doing so.Well then he shouldn't take the position that terrorists are crossing the border. It's an unfounded accusation that lacks credibility.


I tried to tell you who they were, but I guess you don't want to listen.

So here.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004619.php

with reference from the Boston Globe.

and since 2005...

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources ... rror01.htm

And, MS-13 walks across the border...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:12 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Willton wrote:
A fair point, but that is far different from saying that terrorists are crossing the border. Jeremy posits that terrorist are crossing the border as a result of poor security. Unfortunately his evidence is as flimsy as his position....

And this.

... The idea that terrorist could be crossing the border does not mean that they are doing so.Well then he shouldn't take the position that terrorists are crossing the border. It's an unfounded accusation that lacks credibility.


I tried to tell you who they were, but I guess you don't want to listen.

So here.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004619.php

with reference from the Boston Globe.

and since 2005...

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources ... rror01.htm

And, MS-13 walks across the border...

ZM

Your purported references to the "Boston Globe," which actually claim to be links to the Boston Herald, all contain broken links. How am I supposed to believe these sites of yours if their sources do not support their stories?

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Your joking, right? The stories are sourced, the links are too old, not unreliable. And, you have the reference in these two, and if you care to actually research a bit, in numerous articles.

I doubt though that you would type MS-13 and terrorist in your google, and actually read, because you would have to get off your horse.

ZM

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