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Who's watching the inaguration?
Poll ended at Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:41 am
I might watch some of it. 38%  38%  [ 3 ]
I have to work. 38%  38%  [ 3 ]
I already have my cold beer and pretzels ready. 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 8
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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:49 am 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Whew! This has become heated.

While we're at it, Willton, I'd be interested to know your proof for the following:

Quote:
If anything, Bush has made it less safe to live here by engendering negative sentiment towards our country in foreign nations. See Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, Abu-Ghraib, and the executive's policy on torture. The fact that there has not been another attack since 9/11 means just that. It does not mean that Bush has stopped any attacks or potential attacks from foreign nations.


How do you know that?

Sorry, "I heard Joe Biden say it in the debate on TV" isn't admissible as evidence.

How about the opinion of Professor Scott Horton and the statements of Major Matthew Alexander?
Quote:
"The number-one reason foreign fighters gave for coming to Iraq to fight is the torture and abuse that occurred at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo. The majority of suicide bombings are carried out by foreign fighters who volunteered and came to Iraq with this motivation. Consequently it is clear that at least hundreds but more likely thousands of American lives (not to count Iraqi civilian deaths) are linked directly to the policy decision to introduce the torture and abuse of prisoners as accepted tactics.

Americans have died from terrorist attacks since 9/11; those Americans just happen to be American soldiers. This is not simply my view – it is widely held among senior officers in the U.S. military today. Alberto Mora, who served as General Counsel of the Navy under Donald Rumsfeld, testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee in June 2008 that “U.S. flag-rank officers maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq–as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat–are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo.” We owe it to our troops to protect them from terrorist attacks by not conducting torture and we owe it to our forefathers to uphold the American principles that they passed down to us,"

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/12/hbc-90004036

Quote:
As Major Matthew Alexander points out, more than three thousand Americans died and tens of thousands of others were maimed or wounded as a result of the Bush Administration’s decision to introduce torture. Like no other misstep, it fueled the insurgency in Iraq and recruited thousands to its cause.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/01/hbc-90004296

Is that admissible? Or is it just insane to think that our actions have consequences?

Bob in Boston wrote:
Negative sentiment? On the part of whom? Governments that never have liked us anyway: Russia, China, North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, Hamas?

Belarus?

Zimbabwe?

Do you mean to suggest that they're bothered by the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or forcing a few terrorist thugs to wear women's panties on their heads? If you do, get real. They do far worse to anyone who poses an internal threat.

Or do you refer to the Socialists who run most of Europe? If so, who cares? They're no help to us. They couldn't even intervene to stop a civil war in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

I see. So you don't give a damn whether we're on good terms with foreign nations, even those in Europe? Ever heard of the phrase "safety in numbers?"

Bob in Boston wrote:
One other question: What, exactly, do you mean by "attacks or potential attacks by foreign nations"? I work in international news, but I must have missed those reports of foreign troops preparing to land on our shores.

I do, however, remember 19 Islamist fanatics hijacking airliners and flying them into the World Trade Center and Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

No, I mean "attacks or potential attacks from foreign nations," which is exactly what I wrote. That does not mean that an attack must necessarily come from the governments of said nations. I'm pretty sure that those "19 Islamist fanatics" came from a foreign nation and not the suburbs of Connecticut.

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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:50 am 
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Thank you for proving my point Wilton!

Quote:
"We haven't seen FEMA. They haven't been here," said Jaime Green, a spokeswoman for the emergency operations center in Lyon County, about 95 miles northwest of Nashville, Tenn.


[quote]Federal authorities hadn't made it everywhere yet, however.

Brocton Oglesby, director of emergency management in Hopkins County, said he has seen virtually no contribution from FEMA in the county, where more than half of the 27,000 homes remained without electricity.

"They need to be here — at least a presence, a liaison to work with us, to start feeding information and gearing up for the next stage," Oglesby said. "That's where they're going to be needed the most."[quote]


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 Post subject: Re: Who's watching the inaguration?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:43 am 
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Location: Wheeling, WV
Question for Bob---

Since you spend your professional time with international issues, help me out here.

Why do and did the Islamic radicals pick the U.S. to attack? Surely, they didn't throw a dart at a map on the wall. There must be reason why thousands, perhaps millions and millions of them in other coountries hate us enough to kill and even give up their own lives to damage us and kill our people.

You are far to intelligent to give the 'I'm going to Allah today and have 70 virgins' answer. See, maybe if we find out why all this hate exists, we may have a chance to work with them to stop the killings. Or do you think that there are just millions of insane killers out there who are after us, and we shouldn't try to find the root problem and solve it. My feeling is that we just can't kill them all, and when we try, we are in fact making more of them. That can't be the answer, can it?

How do you see all this ending, Bob?

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