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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:31 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I find what bothered most was her actual conservative positions, which scared the bejesus out of the press and Dems.

ZM

It scared the bejesus out of a lot of moderates and conservatives too. That's why the did not vote for McCain - they were not comfortable with the idea that Caribou Barbie would be a heartbeat away from running the Executive.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:07 am 
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A referance to "Caribou Barbie" is really all one needs to know about the veracity of that view.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:10 am 
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Willton wrote:
A higher IQ and a Harvard law degree.


And, you know who has the higher IQ, just how?

I've seen how much credence you give the Ivy's when its a Repubilcan from Yale, though.

Graduating from Harvard really means nothing more than graduating from a "name" school.

The level of snobbishness just rose a few degrees here.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:20 am 
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If I had a dime for every smart person who was a terrible leader, you guys would be complaining about me as the owner of the Bucs.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:34 am 
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Willton wrote:
Argentum wrote:
I'm not looking to start another tired debate, but what made Obama more qualified than Palin? Just curious.

A higher IQ and a Harvard law degree.


A higher IQ is subjective, unless you have access to information that can back this claim. I could provide a lengthy list of people with no degree or non Ivy league degrees that are doing quite well for themselves. A degree from a great school can open doors, but hard work, dedication, and risk taking will ultimately determine your future successes.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:54 am 
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Argentum wrote:
Willton wrote:
Argentum wrote:
I'm not looking to start another tired debate, but what made Obama more qualified than Palin? Just curious.

A higher IQ and a Harvard law degree.


A higher IQ is subjective, unless you have access to information that can back this claim. I could provide a lengthy list of people with no degree or non Ivy league degrees that are doing quite well for themselves. A degree from a great school can open doors, but hard work, dedication, and risk taking will ultimately determine your future successes.


I have to agree, in that some of the smartest people I have met never went to college (by choice). Certainly much smarter than many of my medical school colleagues.

Having said that, I don't happen to think Palin is all that bright, though certainly not as stupid as she was made out to be. I also don't think Obama has much "upside" (as someone else said earlier in this thread), as I believe his "charisma" is the result of being very carefully groomed since his days as a state senator.

As for policies, both of them scare the bejesus out of me, Obama perhaps moreso than Palin.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:05 pm 
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The Republican Party certainly has to take a long look at itself over the next few years. I believe they felt they had to be more Liberal to win over votes. Selecting McCain was the proof of that, being that he was the most Liberal Republican. I had to vote for him because at least he had a few conservative positions and policies(not to mention I literally despise Obama and all he stands for, or doesn't stand for), but i wasn't happy with his nomination as the Partys' candidate.

Palin on the other hand was a breath of fresh air from a Conservative standpoint and with some refining she will be a formidable candidtate in 2012.

Should be interesting to see what Obama actually does for his subjects over the next for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:25 pm 
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You want to know what the Republicans need to do to get back in power in America?

Reach out to the Latin Community. The numbers I've seen have Latinos anywhere from 60%-75% for Obama in the election.

Considering they're the largest minority in the country now, wouldn't it make sense to reach out to them.

I'm just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
You want to know what the Republicans need to do to get back in power in America?

Reach out to the Latin Community. The numbers I've seen have Latinos anywhere from 60%-75% for Obama in the election.

Considering they're the largest minority in the country now, wouldn't it make sense to reach out to them.

I'm just saying.

If that's the target, then you're not going to win them over by proposing draconian immigration policies.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
You want to know what the Republicans need to do to get back in power in America?

Reach out to the Latin Community. The numbers I've seen have Latinos anywhere from 60%-75% for Obama in the election.

Considering they're the largest minority in the country now, wouldn't it make sense to reach out to them.

I'm just saying.

If that's the target, then you're not going to win them over by proposing draconian immigration policies.



Nope. Which is why the Republican Party had to do some serious soul searching. Either change their ways and regain power or stay stuck in the past and become an afterthought in American politics.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Here's my fearless prediction . . . .
Sara Palin won't be a "player" in the 2012 election. Here's why.
What happens in Alaska will now be subject of media attention. If the pipeline that she was touting as an accomplishment never gets built, that will cut against her credibility. Since she was "on record" as being against earmarks, any earmark received by Alaska will be subject to great scrutiny (like the request for a couple of million dollars to study the mating habits of a particular fish). While I do not claim to be a scholar of Alaska, I did take it upon myself to try to learn a little more about the history of the state and Palin's history as mayor and governor after she her nomination as VP. She will be under a microscope now. Federal funds received by the state and how they are spent will be subject to great scrutiny.

While Palin may be very good at selling herself as an outsider, I've read enough to believe that she is no different than most (if not all) politicians. Every time she claimed that Obama "tested the waters" before reaching a decision was the absolute height of hypocrisy. Her legacy in government is littered with examples of taking a particular position and reversing when it proved to be unpopular. And I'm not just thinking of the Bridge to Nowhere situation.

I am still waiting for someone to educate me why the GOP characterized Obama's "increasing taxes on the wealthy" as socialism or communism and is anti-American while praising Palin's "standing up to the oil companies, increasing their taxes and distributing that to Alaskans" as being a "maverick." I simply cannot synthesize these two positions.

Frankly, I think that Palin's best chance to become a national "player" was lost when Stevens lost his Senate re-election bid. If he had won, Stevens could have resigned and Palin could have appointed herself to take his spot. She could have spent 6 years in Congress, learning the ropes, exposing herself to the national political scene, demonstrating an interest in world politics and national issues and acheiving credibility. Instead, she'll still be seen as a pretty woman who is governing a large state with a small population.

Make no mistake, she is a polarizing figure within the GOP. The other GOP governors are not fond of her. Many in the GOP find her to be distasteful while others think that she is the "real deal." From afar, it is my view that the GOP needs a candidate to unite the party and I just don't see Palin as being able to carry the ball.

I think that she will be less and less relevant as time progresses.

Of course, I could be wrong. I also think that catcher's have game calling skills, at bats can be productive even if an out is made . . . . :)

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:13 pm 
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Quote:
I am still waiting for someone to educate me why the GOP characterized Obama's "increasing taxes on the wealthy" as socialism or communism and is anti-American while praising Palin's "standing up to the oil companies, increasing their taxes and distributing that to Alaskans" as being a "maverick." I simply cannot synthesize these two positions.


Saw this part, and after bit, thought I might try to explain this.

In the oil & gas terms I work in, this is fairly easily explained.

First, a point of law (the only point I know, except the part about speeding tickets), oil & gas are real estate when they are in the ground, in reservoir. They become property at the wellhead and into a pipeline.

So, the oil in question in Alaska is real estate owned by Alaskans. This is not private property ownership, these are state and federally owned lands. Thus, the good Governer is not playing Robin Hood, but rather negotiating a contract for the exploitation of state owned real estate. Exxon et al are purchasing real estate at a price that becomes their property once extrapolated. The state is setting a royalty on their resouce. That money is contract money going to the owners, the taxpayers, in the form of a check for the sale of their real estate.

Contrasted to Obama's idea of arbitrarily taxing those who have a certain level of earned income that was earned privately, and was not previouisly owned (for the most part) by federal government. The federal government has no claim (theoretically) on the means by which the money was earned, and outside of providing stable, common law to operate within, does not provide the raw material or property by which the money was generated between two private parties. It is simply demanding money from those according to their means, for distribution to those according to their need. As decided by a central authority.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:51 pm 
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In other words, the same as mineral rights on land? Lumber rights, etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Yep, mineral rights. Not lumber though. You have to distinguish between surface real estate and subsurface real estate.

It gets funky fast in the subsurface. The law is a bit differant there according some O&G lawyers I learned this from. Its made for some real doozers of cases where guys legally could sell gas to a storage unit, then drill next to the storage field, extract the gas, and sell it again, and again... and again....

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Mike-- help me understand this ownership issue.

My twisted mind tells me that Alaska was purchased from Russia in LIncoln's time. If the national government bought the land, why don't they own it and therefore benefit from it's extraction?

After all, no one living in Alaska now or their ancestors bought the oil or gas, so how can they claim ownership? What we need here is a supreme court decision which takes ownership of those resourses and use it to carry part of the expenses of running our country.

Please explain why this is wrong headed thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:42 pm 
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Well, if you listen to the Russian's, they didn't "sell" anything, just leased it!

But, anyways, it goes back to Alaska becoming a state. Their entrance to the union had some clauses about being self sustaining, and providing the lower 48 with resources. In any case, when they became a state, all lands not designated as federal parks became owned by Alaska, or Alaskan's who had property already bought.

Property not privately held, or federally held is owned by the state including the subsurface rights not already privately held. This is a huge expanse of land in Alaska containing huge expanses of oil and gas.

By oil and gas law, those resources are real estate owned by the state. As my limited understanding of anything legal goes.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Sixty percent of Alaska is owned by the federal government. This includes national parks (4) and forests, wildlife refuges, Army (3) and Air Force (2) bases, the former DEW Line radar/communications stations of what's now the North Warning System, and the North Slope Petroleum Reserve.

Less than 1 percent is privately owned by persons other than Native Americans (Tlingit, Aleut, and Athabascan Indians, and Eskimos) The Native Americans and the state own the rest. In total, Alaska comprises more than 375 million acres.

Source: Alaska Department of Natural Resources

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:40 pm 
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MMMM... That's some serious Caribou Bar-B-Q!

ZM

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