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 Post subject: Republican Party
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Let's talk for awhile about the GOP. Has it declined? Has it changed? Does it appeal to a majority of americans?

It is clear that the party is dying. Not just because of the economic crisis, not just because the incompetence of the Bush eight years, not just because we are in a protacted war that they took us to with untruths, but because they have reduced themselves to a party of hate. A limited number of people are willing to aleign themselves with that as their main thrust.

Ever wonder why their strength is in the most uneducated area of the U.S. The rural folks who continue to hold to the old ways. Young people are largely rejecting them. Educated people likewise. If you read respected journalist who report to be conservative and republican, they are increasingly concerned that their party has been kidnapped by the radical, religious right. The small government, low tax conservatives have been squeezed out by the Rush Limbaugh, Hanity, Fox news crowd which seems to exist to hate and promote intolorence. The homophobia, anti- immigrant, racist, as well as sexist agenda seems to be their driving force. Yes, Palin is a women but we all know that the reason she is acceptable is because the boys can fanticize about Sarah, you betcha! She has established an image of dummy but sexy gal. Perfect for the back woods but not for real conservatives or I might add real Americans (not to be confused with those she identified as real Americans).

Real Republicans have two choices: they can join this philosophy of what I call UN-CHRISTIAN behavior, or they can work with others to save the country that we all love.

Obama will surprise most because he will govern from the center, much as Clinton did. He respects the greatness of America and although he knows major change is necessary, it will be in the scope of acceptable change for most. Rush, Hanity and others will continue to spread hate. We don't have to fall in with that. We can choose to work to make America a better place. I hope we choose that route.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Can we please stop distinguishing between "real" Americans and "fake" Americans? I know that it's currently being used to mock Palin, but it looked like you honestly believed there was a difference. Here's the deal: if you are an American citizen, you are a real American. I, being a New Jersey resident and living in an urban city, am no more or less of an American than someone who lives in rural Georgia. Calling someone a real American is like saying "I'm kinda pregnant."

Calling a group of people "real" Americans or a city "Pro-America" was ridiculous when Republicans said it, and it's even more ridiculous when Democrats say it, especially when they knew how stupid it was when first uttered.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:32 pm 
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I was a bit put out when Palin inferred that I was not a real American because of where I live. She was given way too many passes in regard to idiotic statements that she made. She can go back to Alaska now and shoot wolves from choppers.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:13 pm 
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What is completely rubbing me the wrong way is when an African-American is being interviewed, 99% are saying they are voting for Obama because he is black. Obama could say he is for raising all taxes 2,000% and whacking every first born male and people would still vote for him because of his race.

Please, please don't slam me and call me racist. That is far from the truth. It's just my observation from this evening.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:13 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
What is completely rubbing me the wrong way is when an African-American is being interviewed, 99% are saying they are voting for Obama because he is black. Obama could say he is for raising all taxes 2,000% and whacking every first born male and people would still vote for him because of his race.

It makes up for the slew of people who think that Obama is a terrorist because his middle name is Hussein.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:24 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
What is completely rubbing me the wrong way is when an African-American is being interviewed, 99% are saying they are voting for Obama because he is black. Obama could say he is for raising all taxes 2,000% and whacking every first born male and people would still vote for him because of his race.

Republicans have enjoyed the same sort of unconditional mandate from white evangelicals for the past 28 years or so. Welcome to the world of zombified voting-block politics.

And frankly, the GOP has only itself to blame. If it hadn't spent the past several decades hammering a platform at best indifferent, at worst hostile toward the black population at large, Obama might not have represented such an easy choice for African American voters.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:22 am 
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We had a funny conversation with a black student the other day. We were talking about the election and asked one of the black students who he would vote for if he was old enough. He said Barack because he was black. We then asked him who he would vote for if both candidates were black. His response was that he would vote for the darker of the two. LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:27 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
What is completely rubbing me the wrong way is when an African-American is being interviewed, 99% are saying they are voting for Obama because he is black. Obama could say he is for raising all taxes 2,000% and whacking every first born male and people would still vote for him because of his race.


As Kojak notes, there is little difference between someone voting for Obama because he is black versus someone voting for Bush because he is a born again Christian.

I'm a white male. I'm an American but my ancestors come from Norway, Scotland and Germany. I voted for Obama. Before yesterday, in presidential elections, I've had no choice but to vote for someone of my same skin color; someone who "looks" like me. You must remember . . . we are not too far removed from the Civil Rights movement. I cannot begin to put myself in the place of an African American who finally had the opportunity to vote for someone who "looked" like him or her; particularly given the history of this country. I observed many African Americans at my polling place beaming with pride, having their pictures taken and some who were wiping tears from their faces after they had completed their vote. I think that it is real easy for the ordinary white male/female to take issue with someone voting just because of skin color but let's not lose perspective of those whose backgrounds and experiences differ. I'm not saying that it is right; but I understand.

And . . . along the same lines . . . I'm pretty certain that there is a sizeable population of whites in this country who would vote against Obama because he is mixed race. It is not one-sided. Not by a long shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:42 pm 
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Pretty much the entire South voted agains Obama. Quite a coincidence, eh?

I myself voted for Peter Griffin.

Even though I am somewhat afraid of just what Obama will do, I can't help feeling happy for all the black people. They are so proud and happy and hopeful, and that makes me feel good.

I think this has the potential to have a major impact on racial tensions in this country, and make us more united as a people.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:45 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I'm a white male. I'm an American but my ancestors come from Norway, Scotland and Germany. I voted for Obama. Before yesterday, in presidential elections, I've had no choice but to vote for someone of my same skin color; someone who "looks" like me. You must remember . . . we are not too far removed from the Civil Rights movement. I cannot begin to put myself in the place of an African American who finally had the opportunity to vote for someone who "looked" like him or her; particularly given the history of this country. I observed many African Americans at my polling place beaming with pride, having their pictures taken and some who were wiping tears from their faces after they had completed their vote. I think that it is real easy for the ordinary white male/female to take issue with someone voting just because of skin color but let's not lose perspective of those whose backgrounds and experiences differ. I'm not saying that it is right; but I understand.


Very well put No. 9.

The black female port authority driver this morning made a point of addressing the customers via the intercom and cried and babbled on about how much this election meant to her. I was a bit uncomfortable with this display as I'm a pretty private person, and I happened to not vote for Obama, but I couldn't help but be happy for her. There was legitimate pride and happiness in her delivery that was very moving. I'm inclusionary by nature, so I hope that Obama will bring on board a great swath of people who have for the most part felt excluded from the American Dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:51 pm 
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Sub2:

Are you familiar with the old saying that "the only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner"? McCain's concession speech was very conciliatory with class while Obama's victory speech was restrained and dignified. Perhaps you should adopt a bit of both speeches into your "analysis"?


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:40 pm 
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The right wing friend of mine at work who called me a communist for supporting Obama, addressed me as "comrade" several times this morning. I simply saluted and declined any opportunity to rub it in. Can't wait to see David Allen Grier's "Chocolate News" tonight on comedy Central. The first two have been hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:57 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:

As Kojak notes, there is little difference between someone voting for Obama because he is black versus someone voting for Bush because he is a born again Christian. ..


Or, really, Irish Catholics voting for JFK. Any ethnic group is going to be proud of one of "theirs" getting to the big show like that. I'm pretty sure the Poles in America will vote in block for the first Tom Mizikowicz POTUS.

That said, I am troubled by those that scream racist if one dares to question Obama's history and associations. Wilton shrugs and says Obama is called a terrorist because his name includes Hussein. I'm sure there is a small minority that think so. The larger group though is worried about his sympathies and open (until election time) associations and friendships with KNOWN terrorists, and what that means in terms of governance. If your hem'n and haw'n with Ayers and Dorn at a going-away party for a PLO spokesman that is your buddy, then I think its ok to ask what that means for our historical ties with an ally like Israel.

Further, is it being a nutball to question Obama's STATED position to virtually eliminate any coal fired electric plants using carbon credits? Is it being a nutball to point out that Obama's economics plan, having been tried and failed, several times in our history, would simply crush the economic engine of our country, small businesses?

Meh, we'll see. I'm pretty sure that the Dems will do what Dems with all branches always do... over reach big time and remind America, again, why they don't want them in power.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:17 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I observed many African Americans at my polling place beaming with pride, having their pictures taken and some who were wiping tears from their faces after they had completed their vote. I think that it is real easy for the ordinary white male/female to take issue with someone voting just because of skin color but let's not lose perspective of those whose backgrounds and experiences differ. I'm not saying that it is right; but I understand.


The entire process has just rubbed me wrong. Six months ago I saw Obama as a candidate for the democratic nomination. I saw him running a campaign and beating another democrat. After last night I couldn't help but see color. My entire life I've been told to not see color. We are all equals. We are all one in the same. Last night, in my opinion, was a step backwards. I voted against Obama because I disagree with his political ideas not because he is black.

It drives me crazy that people voted for the first time yesterday because he was black. These people fail to realize that there have been many a candidate in past years that has had the same values, same political ideals, and same desire to be president...they just weren't black.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish black/white weren't an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:49 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
That said, I am troubled by those that scream racist if one dares to question Obama's history and associations. Wilton shrugs and says Obama is called a terrorist because his name includes Hussein. I'm sure there is a small minority that think so. The larger group though is worried about his sympathies and open (until election time) associations and friendships with KNOWN terrorists, and what that means in terms of governance. If your hem'n and haw'n with Ayers and Dorn at a going-away party for a PLO spokesman that is your buddy, then I think its ok to ask what that means for our historical ties with an ally like Israel.

Feel free to point out the last terrorist activity Bill Ayers has conducted in the last 30 years.

Please, the larger group should gain some perspective. Obama's history with a "known terrorist" deals with an education reform movement in the 1990's and a campaign contribution in 2001. There is very little evidence that Ayers and Obama had a close relationship. Further, whatever violent acts Ayers conducted while a radical activist occured in the 60's and early 70's while Obama was a mere child. Obama has publicly denounced Ayers's past violent conduct on more than one occasion.

It is absolutely absurd to say that Obama's relationship with Ayers = Obama is a terrorist. Those that think so are indeed "nutballs."

ZelieMike wrote:
Further, is it being a nutball to question Obama's STATED position to virtually eliminate any coal fired electric plants using carbon credits? Is it being a nutball to point out that Obama's economics plan, having been tried and failed, several times in our history, would simply crush the economic engine of our country, small businesses?

It is certainly fine to question those goals, although I would need a little more convincing as to whether the first point is a bad thing and whether the second point would actually do so. But in any event, questioning Obama's policies is certainly fair. What is not fair is a character assassination game based on flimsy evidence.

ZelieMike wrote:
Meh, we'll see. I'm pretty sure that the Dems will do what Dems with all branches always do... over reach big time and remind America, again, why they don't want them in power.

ZM

Given the downward spiral this country has traveled over the last 8 years and the great approval Bill Clinton had during his presidency, I have a little less cynicism than that. The Democratic party has its problems, but that doesn't mean it has no solutions.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:00 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
I observed many African Americans at my polling place beaming with pride, having their pictures taken and some who were wiping tears from their faces after they had completed their vote. I think that it is real easy for the ordinary white male/female to take issue with someone voting just because of skin color but let's not lose perspective of those whose backgrounds and experiences differ. I'm not saying that it is right; but I understand.


The entire process has just rubbed me wrong. Six months ago I saw Obama as a candidate for the democratic nomination. I saw him running a campaign and beating another democrat. After last night I couldn't help but see color. My entire life I've been told to not see color. We are all equals. We are all one in the same. Last night, in my opinion, was a step backwards. I voted against Obama because I disagree with his political ideas not because he is black.

It drives me crazy that people voted for the first time yesterday because he was black. These people fail to realize that there have been many a candidate in past years that has had the same values, same political ideals, and same desire to be president...they just weren't black.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish black/white weren't an issue.

It cuts both ways, IA. I'm sure there are people in this nation that voted for McCain just because Obama is black, and to claim otherwise is naive. I too wish that a candidate's race was not an issue. I also wish that the candidate's chosen religion was not an issue. I also wish that the candidate's sexual orientation was not an issue. But unfortunately, given this country's history, these things are issues and they cut both ways. It's going to be a very long time before we as a nation can see past these issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:04 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
The entire process has just rubbed me wrong. Six months ago I saw Obama as a candidate for the democratic nomination. I saw him running a campaign and beating another democrat. After last night I couldn't help but see color. My entire life I've been told to not see color. We are all equals. We are all one in the same. Last night, in my opinion, was a step backwards. I voted against Obama because I disagree with his political ideas not because he is black.

It drives me crazy that people voted for the first time yesterday because he was black. These people fail to realize that there have been many a candidate in past years that has had the same values, same political ideals, and same desire to be president...they just weren't black.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish black/white weren't an issue.


I don't know what coverage you watched, but CNN's coverage of Grant Park in Chicago showed white people, black people, Asian/Pacific people, Hispanic people, old people, middle aged people, young people in attendance for his acceptance speech. It truly looked like the proverbial "melting pot." I found McCain's concession speech coverage to illustrate a massive contrast. I'm not saying that there were not "people of color" in attendance but I did not see a single "person of color" on TV. The homogenous nature of those in attendance in Phoenix contrasted starkly with the situation in Chicago.

Maybe you just saw "color" because of the many interviews with African Americans discussing the significance of this election to them. White people in America were never slaves. White people were never told not to use a particular bathroom. White men always had the right to vote. They were never considered a fraction of a person. If there was no history of discrimination and hatred, you'd have a better chance that "color" would be far less of an issue. You can't erase that . . . and you simply cannot deny the historical significance of this election.

You think that Palin was chosen solely because of her viewpoints? Absolutely not. She was chosen, at least in part, to attract women who would be inclined to vote for a ticket that would have a woman in power. I'd be willing to argue that the strategy failed but I'm certain that there was a certain segment of the population that voted for McCain/Palin solely because of Palin's plumbing.

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:06 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I'd be willing to argue that the strategy failed but I'm certain that there was a certain segment of the population that voted for McCain/Palin solely because of Palin's plumbing.


That cracked me up! Was there a hint of "Joe the Plumber" in that too?

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:52 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
I'd be willing to argue that the strategy failed but I'm certain that there was a certain segment of the population that voted for McCain/Palin solely because of Palin's plumbing.


That cracked me up! Was there a hint of "Joe the Plumber" in that too?

:D


IA -
I wish that I was that clever. That one flew right by me when I wrote it. After reading your post, I had to laugh. Good pick up.
No. 9

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 Post subject: Re: Republican Party
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:25 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
I'd be willing to argue that the strategy failed but I'm certain that there was a certain segment of the population that voted for McCain/Palin solely because of Palin's plumbing.


That cracked me up! Was there a hint of "Joe the Plumber" in that too?

:D


A friend of mine explained it best McCain tried playin MILF Card....

Being from Johnstown, Pa, where our Congressman called everyone racist and redneck (sometimes the truth hurts), the only two topics republicans cared about in this election and pretty much every election was guns and abortion...and if you look at the map of counties in PA, most went red with the exception of the west and the east...

A guy a work with today said he was thinking of buying some weather proof box to put his guns in and bury them so Obama cant steal them, and others didn't think he was Christian enough...

There were signs in front yards of houses around here that said "How Would Jesus Vote?" Well I hate to tell you bible thumpers out there, if Jesus were here, he wouldn't be voting. I dont know where in The New Testiment it says it, but its something along the lines of when Jesus returns he'll reign supreme...so if he were here I dont see him giving a damn about Obama or McCain...

It seemed like every Republican campaign in my area this year was a negative attack on a Democrat, almost as if they had no real plan of attack or agenda. Even during McCain's speech lastnight his supporters were still booing and yelling negative things after the election was called.

Sarah Palin's little rally she had in town here was the hottest thing on Youtube for about a week because of some old guy (who looked like a child molestor) showed up with a Curious George doll with an Obama sticker on it, stating this is Little Hussien, he's here to see a real American...I'm sure there were lots of people in this area who did not vote for Obama because A) he was not white, B) thought he was Muslim, C) a Socialist, D) a terrorist...all things the Republicans threw out there to the public.

I'm glad it's over and I dont have to hear anyone call anyone else anymore names, or have to answer the damn phone 40 times on a Saturday while trying to work at my business about voting...

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