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 Post subject: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:44 am 
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The bombshell last night is that Staal doesn't want to sign an extension here. Do you make the proposed deal with Carolina today? We would get Justin Faulk (top D prospect), Brandon Sutter (young 3rd line center), and the 8th overall pick in a deep Forward draft, plus about $7 million in cap room for Staal and Martin.

If Jordan wants out, and it seems he does, do you do it, I think you do.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:20 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
The bombshell last night is that Staal doesn't want to sign an extension here. Do you make the proposed deal with Carolina today? We would get Justin Faulk (top D prospect), Brandon Sutter (young 3rd line center), and the 8th overall pick in a deep Forward draft, plus about $7 million in cap room for Staal and Martin.

If Jordan wants out, and it seems he does, do you do it, I think you do.


Why does he want out? Sick of being third fiddle? Wants more money?

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:22 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
The bombshell last night is that Staal doesn't want to sign an extension here. Do you make the proposed deal with Carolina today? We would get Justin Faulk (top D prospect), Brandon Sutter (young 3rd line center), and the 8th overall pick in a deep Forward draft, plus about $7 million in cap room for Staal and Martin.

If Jordan wants out, and it seems he does, do you do it, I think you do.


Why does he want out? Sick of being third fiddle? Wants more money?


Seems like it is the 3rd fiddle issue, no PP time, less ice time etc. He said he would sign an extension with Carolina to play with his brother, but that he would likely become a UFA if not traded.

DK's column today is decidedly more pessimistic about the return for him due to Staal's new comments. -

http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/2 ... air-jordan

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:33 pm 
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I would take that deal.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:13 pm 
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My Habs have the third-overall selection. Our new GM picked Jonathan Toews with the third pick when he was Chicago's GM.
Almost every mock draft has Montreal picking a Russian kid with a torn ACL.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:11 pm 
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...goodbye the young Mr Staal. Enjoyed you while you were here.

But looks like a good deal for the Pens.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/80868 ... lockbuster

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:19 am 
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Wow

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:23 am 
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I do not know anything about the third player (d-man) the Pens got for Staal, but from what little I know about Faulk I would have preferred him. Surely a lock top C like Staal was worth him in return, but clearly the Canes had the leverage as Staal was going to sign there next season as a FA regardless.

So it's better to get something, I guess... *sigh*

---

The loss of Jordan Staal is going to hurt more and more as the years pass. It's going to dwarf the loss of Max Talbot.

I think every fan, general hockey or Pens enthusiast alike, knew that it was extremely unlikely for Burgh to retain their murderers row of #1 picks from 4 consecutive years (Fluery-Geno-Crosby-Staal). Still, as inevitable as this dark day was, it sucks to see it happen with so much potential left untapped.

So much to say on the subject...

JS is only 23 and he clearly has 60+ PT potential, even as a 2nd line winger or 3rd line C for the Pens. And they did offer him a fair shake [deal].

I get that he wants to be a 'featured guy' and play with his bros. Still, why pass up the ideal situation (where the Cup is in reach every year) in Burgh playing with Crosby and Geno???

I don't think Brandon Sutter is going to cut the mustard as a replacement. Sure, he'll be a prototypical solid #3 C, probably a TyKe lite (although TyKe is already pretty lightweight) type, but the depth Staal provided (PP/PK/Extra attacker/injuries/or just plain offensive assault 'best line') is probably going prove to be difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate/replace as the years go on.

JS was my favorite Pen, mostly because Geno is too enigmatic and I felt JS never got his due.

Now he's going to get it and, despite playing for a sham of a franchise in Carolina, I wish him all the best.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:49 am 
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Don't underestimate Shero, by dealing Staal and Michalek, plus the potential ability to can Martin in the new CBA (contract forgiveness is on teh table like the NBA does it), the Pens could have almost $20 million in cap space to go after Sid's longtime buddy and linemate Zach Parise.

They traded Staal's untapped potential for a guy in Sutter who is a perfect fit for Staal's former role and is younger and cheaper. I would have absolutely loved the deal if Faulk was included, but as is, its a good trade considering Shero had zero leverage thanks to Jordan's approach.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Don't underestimate Shero, by dealing Staal and Michalek, plus the potential ability to can Martin in the new CBA (contract forgiveness is on teh table like the NBA does it), the Pens could have almost $20 million in cap space to go after Sid's longtime buddy and linemate Zach Parise.

They traded Staal's untapped potential for a guy in Sutter who is a perfect fit for Staal's former role and is younger and cheaper. I would have absolutely loved the deal if Faulk was included, but as is, its a good trade considering Shero had zero leverage thanks to Jordan's approach.


I'm not saying 'it's over!', I just know that a team doesn't lose the likes of Jordan Staal and not take a hit for it. He is a top-line C and was a luxury for the Pens... a luxury which put them a leg up on pretty much every other team, regardless of circumstance, for the foreseeable future.

When a team like the Pens or Caps (Semin-Ovie-Backstrom-Green), or current Oil/Isles, bottom out for long enough to acquire top-end talent to [position themselves to] become an elite team, they need to capitalize on that window. Sure, the Pens made 2 SCF, but that 6 year window has begun to close a little now and the Pens are starting to 'fall back into the pack' and will have to build around more players for less money.

It's just the way things work in the NHL.

I agree that Shero made out alright and is savvy enough to make things still work. It's just going to be tougher. I think we all know he'd probably rather have kept Staal @ $6 mil a year and gone from there, but this route has promise, too.

As for Parise, I say 'Nein!'. Let the Wild overpay for him (or Kings, which would screw up their chemistry/corps). I'd rather see the Pens go after Suter, which would enable them to unload Letang for some more O help. That or somehow make a push for Rick Nash... I don't see how the Pens would have the right pieces, but... money/talent-wose he'd fit for sure now.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:42 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Don't underestimate Shero, by dealing Staal and Michalek, plus the potential ability to can Martin in the new CBA (contract forgiveness is on teh table like the NBA does it), the Pens could have almost $20 million in cap space to go after Sid's longtime buddy and linemate Zach Parise.

They traded Staal's untapped potential for a guy in Sutter who is a perfect fit for Staal's former role and is younger and cheaper. I would have absolutely loved the deal if Faulk was included, but as is, its a good trade considering Shero had zero leverage thanks to Jordan's approach.


I'm not saying 'it's over!', I just know that a team doesn't lose the likes of Jordan Staal and not take a hit for it. He is a top-line C and was a luxury for the Pens... a luxury which put them a leg up on pretty much every other team, regardless of circumstance, for the foreseeable future.

When a team like the Pens or Caps (Semin-Ovie-Backstrom-Green), or current Oil/Isles, bottom out for long enough to acquire top-end talent to [position themselves to] become an elite team, they need to capitalize on that window. Sure, the Pens made 2 SCF, but that 6 year window has begun to close a little now and the Pens are starting to 'fall back into the pack' and will have to build around more players for less money.

It's just the way things work in the NHL.

I agree that Shero made out alright and is savvy enough to make things still work. It's just going to be tougher. I think we all know he'd probably rather have kept Staal @ $6 mil a year and gone from there, but this route has promise, too.

As for Parise, I say 'Nein!'. Let the Wild overpay for him (or Kings, which would screw up their chemistry/corps). I'd rather see the Pens go after Suter, which would enable them to unload Letang for some more O help. That or somehow make a push for Rick Nash... I don't see how the Pens would have the right pieces, but... money/talent-wose he'd fit for sure now.


I wouldn't unload Letang for the world. Nobody skates like he does.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
I wouldn't unload Letang for the world. Nobody skates like he does.


Especially when making a defensive blunder! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Screw my boy Jordan Staal leaving... Sid the Kid is a Pen for LIFE!!!

You can't put a price on that (although $100 M is a good, quantifiable start)!

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:41 pm 
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The Pens will be alright. Losing Staal is a blow, but Sutter isn't a scrub and they have a good chunk of cap space now for FA.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:37 pm 
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And now JS signed the exact same deal we offered him.

What a maroon.

I hope he gets along with his bro, because as talented as he is he's certainly not going to lift the Canes to the Cup.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:42 pm 
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In the long run it might be a blessing for the Pens having that cap space. Imagine if they would've signed Marion Hossa to that huge deal. Yes, he's very good, but that cap space allowed the Pens to re-sign/sign better players elsewhere than they otherwise would have. Would they have even been able to offer Staal if Hossa was still on the team?


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:15 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
In the long run it might be a blessing for the Pens having that cap space. Imagine if they would've signed Marion Hossa to that huge deal. Yes, he's very good, but that cap space allowed the Pens to re-sign/sign better players elsewhere than they otherwise would have. Would they have even been able to offer Staal if Hossa was still on the team?


Or Ryan Malone, so yes, point taken.

Still, I think Staal was better than them (he's only 23 and racking up 40-50 points as a third line C!) and the Pens managed to replace Hossa with Neal (what a brilliant move by Shero!), so yes I do think the Pens would be fine even with cap space commited to JS. Alas, it was not meant to be.

I'm not so 'bitter' about JS leaving, more love scorned. I loved that cat (I had a McFarland figurine for f*cks sake!), he was so good all-around. When the Pens were playing injured, soft or from behind it always seemed like he was the one stepping up. I never questioned whether or not JS was going to give it his all on any given night. He is/was a warrior, through and through.

Sid (best passer/playmaker) and Geno (best shooter/scorer) are flashier and more talented, but what JS brought to the table was so intangible and detrimental I don't think it's measurable (faceoff wins, forechecks, PK, killing key minutes on a third line vs. a top-two line, etc.).

In some parralel universe where Sid the Kid and Geno don't exist/aren't Pens, I know JS is the toast of the City of Champions because he is exactly what Pens hockey and the city of Pittsburgh is all about!

The Pens will find a replacement(s) and they'll continue to win, maybe even another Cup. It's just going to suck not having one of the cornerstones of the last 5/6 years there for the rest of this era.

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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Apparently the Pens are semi-interested in Rick Nash now that Parise is with the Wild.


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 Post subject: Re: NHL Draft tonight - Staal trade?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:58 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
Apparently the Pens are semi-interested in Rick Nash now that Parise is with the Wild.


Good. He is surely talented and seems hungry to win.

Steve Sullivan signed with the Coyotes. He was a solid pick up last year.

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