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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:04 pm 
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That's all fine and dandy and I am sure there are many men who were influenced positively by him. That said, the flags at half staff are a bit much.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:19 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Wilton you just demonstrated a total lack of knowledge of Paterno's accomplishments, which far exceed play on the field. you can start with the number of endowed chairs or the university library...

Then educate me, ZM. What has Mr. Paterno done that is so grand and so worthy of praise that he deserves an honor typically given to people who die for their country?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:32 pm 
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For the record, flags were flown at half-staff in Alabama when Bear Bryant died in 1983 and in Louisiana on the death of Eddie Robinson in 2007. And they were both, you know, college football coaches. But I suppose that is irrelevant to this discussion . . . :? :? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Here's a story from the Beaver County Times about how Paterno's focus on education impacted one successful young man.

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/washington-owes-much-to-paterno/article_753518d4-8248-5c62-af94-c1ce161b7622.html

Regarding his coaching record, he had 5 undefeated seasons, winning the national championship in only one of those, and also had another national championship season where he went 11-1.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.


Oh come on, the flags are lowered to half staff for many occasions, not just for the likes of MLK. If those mourning feel its warranted then that should be enough, there is no obligation of Pennsylvanians to appease those outside of the commonwealth.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
For the record, flags were flown at half-staff in Alabama when Bear Bryant died in 1983 and in Louisiana on the death of Eddie Robinson in 2007. And they were both, you know, college football coaches. But I suppose that is irrelevant to this discussion . . . :? :? :?

If Alabama and Louisiana jumped off a bridge, would you?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.


Oh come on, the flags are lowered to half staff for many occasions, not just for the likes of MLK. If those mourning feel its warranted then that should be enough, there is no obligation of Pennsylvanians to appease those outside of the commonwealth.

I agree that the choice of whether to fly flags at half-mast belongs to the residents of Pennsylvania and no one else, and if this is what the PA public wants, this is what the PA public gets. That does not stop me from judging the decision as a poor one, however. And the fact that the PA government chose to do so for the sake of a football coach shows how sports figures are overly agrandized in this country, and particularly in the state of Pennsylvania.

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Last edited by Willton on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Here's a counter-question, Willton: How, exactly, is your well-being affected if flags in Pennsylvania are lowered to half-staff because an iconic football coach died?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Here's a counter-question, Willton: How, exactly, is your well-being affected if flags in Pennsylvania are lowered to half-staff because an iconic football coach died?

By a factor of 0%. Nonetheless, it does not stop me from rendering an opinion on the subject. This is a message board, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Willton wrote:
Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.


Oh come on, the flags are lowered to half staff for many occasions, not just for the likes of MLK. If those mourning feel its warranted then that should be enough, there is no obligation of Pennsylvanians to appease those outside of the commonwealth.

I agree that the choice of whether to fly flags at half-mast belongs to the residents of Pennsylvania and no one else, and if this is what the PA public wants, this is what the PA public gets. That does not stop me from judging the decision as a poor one, however. And the fact that the PA government chose to do so for the sake of a football coach shows how sports figures are overly agrandized in this country, and particularly in the state of Pennsylvania.


You seem to ignore that he was a state employee who did far more for the state's higher education system than just coach football.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
You seem to ignore that he was a state employee who did far more for the state's higher education system than just coach football.

Well then educate me. Because from my standpoint, all I see is a highly successful football coach and mentor to a plurality of college students. Nothing more.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:50 pm 
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There are many educators in PA that have influenced many young people. They were not the coach at Penn State University for 45 years. Will the flags be at half staff when they pass away?

And to turn the coin.... while patting him on the back for all his good deeds(and I am not arguing that he did a lot of good for a lot of people) let's not forget his wrong doings, bullying, cover ups, etc. He wasn't a saint as many would have you believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:11 am 
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Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
You seem to ignore that he was a state employee who did far more for the state's higher education system than just coach football.

Well then educate me. Because from my standpoint, all I see is a highly successful football coach and mentor to a plurality of college students. Nothing more.



A couple summaries - http://www.pennlive.com/specialprojects ... ndrai.html

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-01-22/sp ... rsity-park

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Wilton, I gave you two off the top. But again, how many chairs does he have fund for you? Last count I think he had funded 6 dept chairs for PSU.

Is one full library enough for you?

How about a theater? How many of those? One enough?

And we haven't touched the personal level.

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