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 Post subject: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Flags in Pa. at half staff to honor a football coach who knowingly allowed a child molester to continue his evil ways? Everyone fawning over the guy who had an ego the size of the Hershey chocolate factory? His legacy should just fade away like American Motors. I am feeling ill at the thought of all this. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Flags in Pa. at half staff to honor a football coach who knowingly allowed a child molester to continue his evil ways? Everyone fawning over the guy who had an ego the size of the Hershey chocolate factory? His legacy should just fade away like American Motors. I am feeling ill at the thought of all this. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Come on now, the man was practically a Saint when it comes to his 60 year commitment to college education. No coach in the country ever did as much as he did for the University. You can't dismiss a lifetime of execellence for one poor judgement. The scandal certainly leaves a black mark on his legacy, but the sum of all the great things he did for students is admirable.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
You can't dismiss a lifetime of execellence for one poor judgement.


Yes I can. Pretty big example of poor judgement.

Flags at half staff should be for heroes and presidents, not college football coaches.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:46 pm 
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He is a hero in this state.

And as far as the poor judgement, he did what he thought was right at the time. In hindsight it was a mistake but that does not invalidate all the accomplishments and good things he did.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:33 pm 
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One more example of the excessive glorification of sports. I agree with AZBF. Even if the Sandusky scandal hadn't happened, the idea that a state would fly their flags at half-mast over the death of a guy who taught kids how to play a game strikes me as a slap in the face to those who committed their lives to public service and truly deserve an honorable sendoff. And before you say it, coaching football is not what I would consider a public service, even if its done by a public employee. Paterno coached football; he didn't cure cancer.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Wilton you just demonstrated a total lack of knowledge of Paterno's accomplishments, which far exceed play on the field. you can start with the number of endowed chairs or the university library...

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 pm 
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The main street running through Fort Jackson, South Carolina is Strom Thurman BLVD...

And in the state Capitol, the man has a statue like 5 times the size of the founding fathers...

So, I agree it's a tad absurd and all, but...

Yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Paterno coached football; he didn't cure cancer.


Irony intended?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:32 am 
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Strom Thurman ranks right up there with Adoph Rupp. I was in the south in the early 70's. Interesting place. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Why Joe Paterno would be a hero is something I cannot comprehend. 'nuff said from here. :? :? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Keep in mind Gov. Corbett made the call on the flags. He is smack in the middle of the Sandusky fiasco. He has been getting drilled, along with other PSU trustees, by the Paterno lovers. This could be his way of appeasing them a bit. And for the record, the trustees should be getting drilled so I don't want it to seem like I'm defending them either.

But I agree AZ, he was a great football coach who did a lot of great things for PSU. That doesn't make him a hero, especially in light of the scandal. Also, it is now pretty well known that he was pretty big on covering things up, bullying people that didn't fall in line with what he wanted, etc.

Flags at half staff is a bit much for sure....


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:04 pm 
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That's all fine and dandy and I am sure there are many men who were influenced positively by him. That said, the flags at half staff are a bit much.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:19 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Wilton you just demonstrated a total lack of knowledge of Paterno's accomplishments, which far exceed play on the field. you can start with the number of endowed chairs or the university library...

Then educate me, ZM. What has Mr. Paterno done that is so grand and so worthy of praise that he deserves an honor typically given to people who die for their country?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:32 pm 
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For the record, flags were flown at half-staff in Alabama when Bear Bryant died in 1983 and in Louisiana on the death of Eddie Robinson in 2007. And they were both, you know, college football coaches. But I suppose that is irrelevant to this discussion . . . :? :? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Here's a story from the Beaver County Times about how Paterno's focus on education impacted one successful young man.

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/washington-owes-much-to-paterno/article_753518d4-8248-5c62-af94-c1ce161b7622.html

Regarding his coaching record, he had 5 undefeated seasons, winning the national championship in only one of those, and also had another national championship season where he went 11-1.


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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.


Oh come on, the flags are lowered to half staff for many occasions, not just for the likes of MLK. If those mourning feel its warranted then that should be enough, there is no obligation of Pennsylvanians to appease those outside of the commonwealth.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
For the record, flags were flown at half-staff in Alabama when Bear Bryant died in 1983 and in Louisiana on the death of Eddie Robinson in 2007. And they were both, you know, college football coaches. But I suppose that is irrelevant to this discussion . . . :? :? :?

If Alabama and Louisiana jumped off a bridge, would you?

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Willton wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Ask those kids that he mentored about his role in their lives. I've heard many stories (not just from football players) about how his role in many young folks lives was rivaled only by their father's. Its easy to draw conclusions from the outside, but those who knew him and were affected by him certainly stand by him. I guess I can't comprehend how mentoring 1000's in a positive way can be dismissed in order to denigrate the man in death.

Then those 1000's of people can have a private ceremony in his honor. It does not justify treating him with the same honor given to a guy like Dr. Martin Luther King, who affected millions of people in a positive way. Being a father figure to thousands of people deserves praise, but not the kind that's typically reserved for those who die for their country.


Oh come on, the flags are lowered to half staff for many occasions, not just for the likes of MLK. If those mourning feel its warranted then that should be enough, there is no obligation of Pennsylvanians to appease those outside of the commonwealth.

I agree that the choice of whether to fly flags at half-mast belongs to the residents of Pennsylvania and no one else, and if this is what the PA public wants, this is what the PA public gets. That does not stop me from judging the decision as a poor one, however. And the fact that the PA government chose to do so for the sake of a football coach shows how sports figures are overly agrandized in this country, and particularly in the state of Pennsylvania.

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Last edited by Willton on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gimme a break here.......
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Here's a counter-question, Willton: How, exactly, is your well-being affected if flags in Pennsylvania are lowered to half-staff because an iconic football coach died?

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