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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:15 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.


Joe's comments yetserday said it all, the program was and is #1 -

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today,"

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.

For you lawyers on the board. This is from one of the victim's lawyers:

Quote:
"The board of trustees got it wrong. They should have consulted the victims before making a decision on Mr. Paterno. They should have considered these victims watch TV and are aware of the students' reaction and may not want to be associated with the downfall of Mr. Paterno. The school instead elected to do what it felt was in its own best interest at the time. Isn’t that what put the school in this position in the first place?"


Some of the people who commented on this are saying "exactly".

So the student's blaming the victims for JoePa's fall should be taken into account even though it is wrong for these students to do that.

This lawyer is doing one thing and one thing only. Setting the stage for a major civil lawsuit.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:49 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.


Same here. I live 30 minutes from PSU so most of my friends are fans...I AM NOT! My one friend, who is an alum, posted a page they started saying how the rest of "us" don't get what it means to be a PSU alum. Unreal...I'd like to think regardless of how rabid a fan/alum you are that you can set that aside to see how egregious this error was on everyone's part at PSU. I'm so sick of hearing my Penn St friends saying "Joe did what he was supposed to do...followed the chain of command"...HEAD IN SAND!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:51 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.


Same here. I live 30 minutes from PSU so most of my friends are fans...I AM NOT! My one friend, who is an alum, posted a page they started saying how the rest of "us" don't get what it means to be a PSU alum. Unreal...I'd like to think regardless of how rabid a fan/alum you are that you can set that aside to see how egregious this error was on everyone's part at PSU. I'm so sick of hearing my Penn St friends saying "Joe did what he was supposed to do...followed the chain of command"...HEAD IN SAND!!!


The Nile is a river that runs through Happy Valley.

The arrogance of PSU alums has always been ridiculous to me. Be proud, yes. But don't act like you are Harvard with a Top 20 football team.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.


Joe's comments yetserday said it all, the program was and is #1 -

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today,"


There may be a time when he looks at himself in the mirror and asks "was it really in the best interests of Penn State University" to shove this matter under the rug and pretend it never existed? From a financial standpoint, I'm predicting that the amount of money that will be paid to those molested and assaulted by Jerry Sandusky will pale in comparision to the total donations made by all those who lose their jobs over this mess. From a reputation standpoint, the cost to PSU is staggering.

JoePa's goal may have been to serve the best interests of PSU . . . but the execution of his actions were not consistent with that goal. Indeed . . . in light of this unmitigated disaster . . . it seems rather clear that his actions have proven to be the antithesis of what was in the best interests of PSU.

Jerry Sandusky, known pedophile, adjunct professor, commencement speaker (2007), permissive user of PSU's main campus and permissive user of PSU's satellite campuses for football camps.

Yeah . . . its the media's fault. Poor Joe. He's the victim. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:13 pm 
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How about this for arrogance?: "I will retire at the end of the season. Therefore, there is nothing for the Board of Trustees to discuss. They shouldn't spend another minute on this."

Translation: "I am the boss. I will dictate my terms of departure. F___ you if you think otherwise."

Ummm . . . no. Bye, bye.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:12 pm 
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How much do you trust Mark Madden?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 ... 86099.html

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Watching the hundreds of Penn Staters rally to JoePa's defense at his house last night, I have never been prouder to be a Pitt student.

PSU = Pedophilia Subterfuge Unlimited


Judge, this is an uncalled for shot. And, not from a PSU alum. It would be quite easy to say...


...yeah, proud of Pitt because they hire coaches who only beat on the mother of their illegitimate child, while the students riot in Oakland, burning cars and smashing windows after another NCAA loss.

See how easy that is?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Judge Landis wrote:

I trust Madden as far as I could throw his fat ass.

Given the shocks we've already had, though, who knows?

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:43 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Judge Landis wrote:
Watching the hundreds of Penn Staters rally to JoePa's defense at his house last night, I have never been prouder to be a Pitt student.

PSU = Pedophilia Subterfuge Unlimited


Judge, this is an uncalled for shot. And, not from a PSU alum. It would be quite easy to say...


...yeah, proud of Pitt because they hire coaches who only beat on the mother of their illegitimate child, while the students riot in Oakland, burning cars and smashing windows after another NCAA loss.

See how easy that is?

ZM

It would be much easier to do if the coach actually HAD beaten the mother of their illegitimate child. Charges were dropped.

There is no comparison as the the magnitude of those stories. The Penn State scandal may be the biggest sports-related story in my lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:49 pm 
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OK, point taken, ZM. Though the Pitt student body didn't have anything to do with that coach's hiring, and the idiocy of rioting after a loss pales in comparison to the idiocy of rallying around a pedophilia enabler (or the idiocy of engaging in the kind of idolatry that is the Cult of Paterno in the first place), you're right, that was a cheap shot. I've been getting a little overemotional about this story.

I stand behind my acronym, though. Especially if Madden's rumor pans out.

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Last edited by Judge Landis on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:55 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I trust Madden as far as I could throw his fat ass.

Given the shocks we've already had, though, who knows?


I don't listen to Madden. Is he the type to throw unsubstantiated rumors out there all the time? I always thought that people's aversion to him stemmed from the fact that he's just an obnoxious, abrasive, egotistical jerk.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:00 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
I always thought that people's aversion to him stemmed from the fact that he's just an obnoxious, abrasive, egotistical jerk.


Those are his most redeeming qualities, Judge.

I have to admit, I kind of like MM. When I am available, I turn on his show in my office out here (due to the time zone difference, he's on noon-3). He's a complete a-hole, but most of the yinzers that call in deserve the obnoxious, abrasive responses. In fact, my colleagues think he is great- but think the callers are all rigged because certainly no sports fans could be that stupid.

Its unfortunate, though, that the man doesn't understand anything about sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:24 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I trust Madden as far as I could throw his fat ass.

Given the shocks we've already had, though, who knows?


I don't listen to Madden. Is he the type to throw unsubstantiated rumors out there all the time? I always thought that people's aversion to him stemmed from the fact that he's just an obnoxious, abrasive, egotistical jerk.

Madden got his start doing color commentary on professional wrestling. Need I say more?

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Here is my take on the situation. I am neither a lawyer nor a Penn State student. I think in 98 they made Sandusky retire after the 1st incident happened. I think the DA said he'd not follow through if they made him retire and get treatment. JoePa said in one of the 1st interviews 'he fooled us all'. Sad part was with his tenure and retirement agreement, he had the right to an office and keys to the facilities. It would have been too much trouble to go through a battle over it. The football facilities are huge, and it is probably near impossible to know who is in there at all times.

It is not known if Joe followed up with it. He had that meeting with Curley and Schultz, then they talked to McQueary again. He could have asked Shultz later what was going on with that. They could have easily lied to him as they did to others. He could have figured they paid the victims off too. They pretty much havent let him speak since this happened. And now after the firing seems to be preparing for a civil suit against him.

Also, where are the victims, the charity, and even Sandusky's wife. Someone should have noticed the kids staying away from him after time, or not taking his wife on Bowl games and taking these kids. You'd think the victims would have spoke up too. The one was 14, by 9 or 10 you should know what is an appropriate touch and not an appropriate touch. As someone who has been around wrestling since I was 10, there have been times I have had to shower with old men and coaches. I damn well know if one came over and bearhugged me naked and tried soaping my back, I'd have kicked him in the testicles and got out of there.

My 1st thoughts are Paterno is the 1st name you think of when you hear Penn State and was the biggest target to make it feel like something was done. I dont think he knew what was going on after the 98 incident and the 2002 incident. Could he have done more? Yeah, probably, but who knows if he did or didnt really. I think everyone needs to let the process play out before dealing out the guilty verdicts.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Speaking from the perspective of a child molestation victim at the hands of someone whom I loved and respected, I can tell you with certainty, Dan, that it's not so cut-and-dried as to "kick him in the balls and get out of there". It's just not that simple and easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:23 pm 
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You are on the money Judge.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Not completely unrelated — in fact, eerily similar in many ways — is this hushed-up bit of Red Sox secret history, only now getting the attention it deserves 20+ years too late.

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201111/another-era-and-another-sport-sex-abuse-scandal-still-inflicting-pain-today

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:58 pm 
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I think a lot of what nad69dan said is accurate. I also agree with the Judge.

My guess is that in 1998 Paterno found out about Sandusky's incident and at that point told him he would never be the head coach at Penn State and essentially forced his resignation. I also think that the fact Sandusky didn't get a job with anyone else despite being at the top of his game as a defensive coordinator is pretty telling. Those within the college football community are connected and I truly believe Sandusky's issues were known by those outside of Happy Valley.

Anyhow, I think as part of his resignation they agreed to allow him to have certain privileges - the office on campus, access to the program, etc. Penn State's end of the bargain was probably to keep him quiet, to keep quiet themselves, and his end of the bargain was probably to resign without a fuss. He did, and it looks like Penn State kept their end of the deal too.

Then in 2002 McQueary walks into the locker room and sees Sandusky with a boy in the shower. At this point, it's known around the football program that Sandusky has a predisposition to shower with boys. That's what the 1998 incident was all about. Now McQueary sees it first hand (and allegedly its very much worse than just showering). The grand jury presentment is silent on what exactly happens in those moments. It is just mentioned that he told his father about it and they met with Paterno about it and then eventually Curley and Shultz in the following days.

McQueary passes it up to Paterno. Paterno passes it "up" to Curley and Schultz. Curley and Schultz decide to then ban Sandusky from bringing Second Mile boys on campus. Spanier approves this course of action. How bizarre is this?

Somebody mentioned in the paragraph above is lying. The grand jury said that they found McQueary to be very credible. They found Curley and Schultz to be incredible. Allegedly, Curley and Schultz just heard that there was an issue in the showers with Sandusky who was "horsing around" with a boy. If I recall correctly, Paterno's recollection was much of the same - that Mike McQueary told him that Sandusky was horsing around in the shower with a boy when he walked in.

The problem is that this just doesn't add up. McQueary's side of the story is that he told them the gory details of what he saw in the shower that night. Of all people, McQueary has no reason to lie. Why would someone with the mental picture of a 10 year old boy being sodomized by a 60 or so year old man call that horsing around?

The Joe Paterno as a deity complex that has been created at Penn State also makes this less believable. Paterno has been built up to this status because of that football program. He's got a reason not to tell the truth. The simple answer is right in front of us - he didn't want to know. For that I don't blame him, however, I think his reasons are much different than what I would anticipate feeling. He didn't want to know because scandal could harm Penn State football.

I also find it to be incredible that anyone thinks telling Schultz was like telling the police. I don't know exactly what the duties are of the VP of Finance at a major university but it doesn't surprise me to know that that person may be the "head" of the campus police. What does surprise me, though, is that anyone thinking reasonably and honestly would believe that telling this person mean you had told the police about an incident. The VP of Finance was very likely in charge of funding and so nominally he may have been the head of police. I doubt, though, that he has filed a police report out in the past couple of years. Is he telling the police what to investigate out there? What dorms to look out for because of parties? Is he out there investigating crime? No. Telling Schultz is not telling the police. It's a cop out (no pun intended).

I'm most deeply saddened (besides due to the direct acts of Sandusky of course) by the student reaction to the firing of Paterno. In their world, Paterno can do no wrong. In their world, the main issue becomes the fact that Joe Paterno was fired as head football coach. It's a football problem, really.

And how do they support him? Rioting. Arguing that HE didn't deserve this. Pointing to all the GOOD he HAS done for the university. Reminding us of how Paterno's way was "Success with Honor." Never did it occur to them - not this time. My purpose is not to rail on Paterno. Good people make mistakes too. He HAS done a lot of good for that school and the surrounding area. Unfortunately, he made a mistake. For that, he is responsible and should suffer the consequences. That's not the media's fault.


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