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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:47 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:

Once teams pass first and abandon the run against the Steelers, then we'll know how legit they are on D. Because other than the always smarter than everyone else Belichick, nobody else has abandoned the run early against the Steelers.

.


That would be Saints, Bills, Pats... oh, and virtually everyone except the Titans.

I also notice you point to Bengals and Bills "almost" winning, and ignore how the Steelers by same said definition, "almost beat" the Saints and "should have" beat the Ravens.

At 8-3, you are finding an awful lot to moan about.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:10 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:

Once teams pass first and abandon the run against the Steelers, then we'll know how legit they are on D. Because other than the always smarter than everyone else Belichick, nobody else has abandoned the run early against the Steelers.

.


That would be Saints, Bills, Pats... oh, and virtually everyone except the Titans.

I also notice you point to Bengals and Bills "almost" winning, and ignore how the Steelers by same said definition, "almost beat" the Saints and "should have" beat the Ravens.

At 8-3, you are finding an awful lot to moan about.

ZM


Because 12 weeks into the season and with few exceptions (against the Bucs and Browns, two teams that were a combined 8-24 last year) the Steelers have shown an inability to stop the pass & keep leads secure/kill clock when ahead/keep D off field when ahead/score when needed to put a game away.

Realistically this team is behind at least five (and perhaps even seven) other teams in terms of being a as good as you say they are.

IMO, weeks 10-15 are when teams should be in full swing, doing what they do best and putting things together. It's when good teams lose not because of stupid mistakes and miscues, but because their (equally good) opponent outplays them.

I see the Pats, Jets, Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Falcons, Saints, Pack and Eagles getting their acts together and losing close games and I see the Steelers still trying to put things together and making mistakes.

Since the return of Big Ben, I think the Steelers have done more to fall back in with the rest of the herd than to separate themselves from it.

Perhaps it is a case of me 'being too hard on [what's as good as] my own flesh and blood', but I call it like I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:35 pm 
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Oops, Why are there........ :? :? :? :? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:06 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:

Because 12 weeks into the season and with few exceptions (against the Bucs and Browns, two teams that were a combined 8-24 last year)


Ummm, what are their records THIS year, when the Steel beat them?


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Realistically this team is behind at least five (and perhaps even seven) other teams in terms of being a as good as you say they are.


Then why to those teams give up more points?

Quote:
IMO, weeks 10-15 are when teams should be in full swing, doing what they do best and putting things together. It's when good teams lose not because of stupid mistakes and miscues, but because their (equally good) opponent outplays them.

I see the Pats, Jets, Ravens, Chargers, Bears, Falcons, Saints, Pack and Eagles getting their acts together and losing close games and I see the Steelers still trying to put things together and making mistakes.


Ummm, closing games in the Steeler system, is not a function of the defense per se. It is a function of an offense that can kill the clock. In the Arian's era that won't happen because of his genetic disposition to avoid a fullback and commit to a running game as his predecessors did.

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Since the return of Big Ben, I think the Steelers have done more to fall back in with the rest of the herd than to separate themselves from it.


Can't tell it by the record, which is what counts. But, if you mean they still manage to win despite losing two of the better/best Defensive ends in the game, most of your offensive line, and giving away a pro-bowl receiver... well, OK, I'm with you.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
The officiating is getting tough to overcome, particularly when we play a better team like this week.


Please, to blame this on referees is bordering on ludicrous. James Harrison has shown an inability to adjust his game and adapt to the latest interpretation of the rules. He continues to lead with his head and then go waah waah when called for it. It seems the rest of the league has figured it out. Quit crying James. :shock: :shock: :shock:


I'm not just referring to the two Harrison BS calls the last two weeks. They called Ryan Clark for a helmet to helmet when he hit the reciever in the number on his back. They called Ike for interference for running down the field with a WR that ran himself out of bounds. They called a lineman for diving after a presumed fumble for a personal foul for piling on. They called holding on Mendy's 40 yarder that was phantom. 26 or 27 penalties in two weeks on a team that has been among the least penalized in the sport over the last few years, come on. The Raiders game was a joke those officials should have been fined, last week was only an example of poor officiating.

I'm not a ref blamer normally, heck we won both games, but I can see that target on our jersey's plain as day. It has become the Steelers vs. the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Ummm, what are their records THIS year, when the Steel beat them?


11-11 or .500. Wow, amazing.

The Steelers three biggest wins are against teams with a combined 16-17 record and their losses are against teams with a 25-8 record... hmm...

ZelieMike wrote:
Then why to those teams give up more points?


Two teams give up fewer points than the Steelers (Pack and Bears) and two are within a TD of the Steelers (Jets and Ravens). And regardless of points allowed, the Falcons, Jets and Pats have better records while the Ravens, Saints and Bears have equal records (and the Ravens and Saints have beaten the Steelers head to head).

Also, only THREE teams with winning records give up as many passing yards (or more) than the Steelers: The Pats, Falcons and Chiefs. Two of those teams still have better records than the Steelers (probably because their offense is more cohesive) and I would consider both of those teams better.

ZelieMike wrote:
Ummm, closing games in the Steeler system, is not a function of the defense per se. It is a function of an offense that can kill the clock. In the Arian's era that won't happen because of his genetic disposition to avoid a fullback and commit to a running game as his predecessors did.


I know the Steelers system and it looks almost broken (due to Arians and injuries). And just because it's the system being used does not make it the right one.

Since injuries are part of the game and since the offense has been erratic since Whisenhunt left, it's clear that Arians is the problem. The running game has done well despite a bad OL, but the passing game is hot and cold. Simply put: the offense should be better.

ZelieMike wrote:
Can't tell it by the record, which is what counts. But, if you mean they still manage to win despite losing two of the better/best Defensive ends in the game, most of your offensive line, and giving away a pro-bowl receiver... well, OK, I'm with you.

ZM


I mean they do not look better than somewhere between five and seven other teams thus far---five to seven other teams who they will have to beat to win the Super Bowl.

If they beat the Ravens on SNF, no matter how, I will finally have reason to believe otherwise. If they do not... it will be the same old story.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:32 am 
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I'm shocked.

Thrilled, but shocked.

'Balboa' Roethlisberger somehow got it done and for all the grief I give the (pass) D, they are the the only reason why this team is so good. I honestly love them, specifically Troy; if there's a football team in heaven he's on God's shortlist for SS.

This W will certainly be added to my 'Top 10 Steelers: How in the HELL did they win that game' pantheon list (behind the 2005 AFC Divisional game vs. the Colts and somewhere beside last year's GB game and 08's Dallas-Baltimore back-to-back heart stoppers).

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:30 am 
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How did they win?

Simple.

Their defense is the best.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:32 am 
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Those 2 defenses last night were impressive. Really impressive. 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:02 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
How did they win?

Simple.

Their defense is the best.

ZM


Yup, the D absolutely won the game last night.

I was shocked when the D did something I hadn't seen it do since the 2008 AFC Championship game:

It got BETTER in the 4th Quarter and put MORE pressure on the QB.

Maybe it was because Keisel was back, maybe it was because they were playing the Ravens and maybe because the team finally got that 'edge' back (more reps in the gym???).

All I know is that I'm excited and I want to see it again.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:03 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
How did they win?

Simple.

Their defense is the best.

ZM


Well, except maybe for Bryant McFadden. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:13 am 
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Anybody (not) watching MNF?

The Patriots (again) showed why I have my doubts about the Steelers Super Bowl chances this season.

They're freakishly good.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:18 pm 
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The defense has been slowed down by the injuries to Smith and Kiesel. Kiesel returned on Sunday against the Ravens and the defense applied better pass pressure.

The offense ... I don't know what to say. If the offensive line was not wracked with injuries, I believe that the conversation would be different. Not glowingly positive, just different.

Both staring tackles out. That means that Trai Essex starts. *gag* I believe that "Trai" earned his first name by downing mountains of snack trays. Being embarrassinly fat seems to be his best attribute.

As for the Patsies ... the never-ending rule changes designed to benefit the short passing game were actually noticed by Belichick (asshole). No contact beyond 5 yards, offensive lineman are free to hold, the back judge never calls offensive PI on pick plays.

The patsies put those benefits to use. They run crossing routes and WR screens that involve blatant picks and blocks by other WR's, well before the ball is thrown. Why is Welker always wide open over the middle? Because the TE or other WR on that side set a pick. Until the league starts to penalize the pick play, it is damn near impossible to stop.

Damn near. Have a LB'er and a safety patrol the middle of the field and light up every receivers that comes that way ... the short passing game will slow down.


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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:25 pm 
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I think we would all agree that the Patriots look a lot better than the Steelers right now. In fact they look a lot better than everybody.

But that's no reason to give up hope. If the Steelers can lock up the #2 seed, which is well within their reach, then win their first playoff game and presumably go to Boston for the AFC Championship, I'll take those odds from that point.

You never know how the bounces or the injuries are going to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:49 pm 
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I was honestly hoping the Steelers lost to the Ravens. Why? Because the 3-4 seeds are probably going to be KC and JAX in some order.

I think it's almost guaranteed the Steelers could handle those two teams in the first round and then carry momentum on the road for the second round (for a rematch with either the Pats or Ravens).

Still, having a bye would certainly help the OL. Either way it appears a second round game is a lock.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:45 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
I was honestly hoping the Steelers lost to the Ravens. Why? Because the 3-4 seeds are probably going to be KC and JAX in some order.

I think it's almost guaranteed the Steelers could handle those two teams in the first round and then carry momentum on the road for the second round (for a rematch with either the Pats or Ravens).

Still, having a bye would certainly help the OL. Either way it appears a second round game is a lock.

Not sure how it benefits the Steeler to have to beat a team like Jax or KC on the road the first round.

Then, they travel to either NE or Baltimore for the 2nd round, depending on seeding. Then, they have to take on the winner of the other game (either Baltimore or NE).

Getting a wild card in the AFC means that you probably have to beat both the No. 1 and No. 2 seeds, on the road. For the Steelers, that would mean no week off, and two road games after winning the opening round.

Here is my prediction .... some teams own other teams. The effing Patsies have the Steelers number. However, the Patsies DO NOT play well against or matchup the same against the Ravens.

The Ravens are the No. 6 seed at this point. I believe that the Ravens go 11-5, and finish with the 6 seed.

When the Ravens beat the 3 seed (Kansas City), they then take on the No. 1 seed (almost certainly the Patsies). I see the Rats betting the Pats, and then coming to Pittsburgh for another AFC Championship loss.

You heard it hear first.


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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:48 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
I was honestly hoping the Steelers lost to the Ravens. Why? Because the 3-4 seeds are probably going to be KC and JAX in some order.

I think it's almost guaranteed the Steelers could handle those two teams in the first round and then carry momentum on the road for the second round (for a rematch with either the Pats or Ravens).

Still, having a bye would certainly help the OL. Either way it appears a second round game is a lock.

Not sure how it benefits the Steeler to have to beat a team like Jax or KC on the road the first round.

Then, they travel to either NE or Baltimore for the 2nd round, depending on seeding. Then, they have to take on the winner of the other game (either Baltimore or NE).

Getting a wild card in the AFC means that you probably have to beat both the No. 1 and No. 2 seeds, on the road. For the Steelers, that would mean no week off, and two road games after winning the opening round.


It worked for them in 05.

To my (more recent) memories, the Steelers play well/better when they're 'up against it' (certainly under Cowher), be it a 'must win' or on the road. They seem to get complacent after byes and/or when playing inferior opponents (which, in theory, if they had the #2 seed their opponent would be 'not as good').

Also recently, alot of teams have used early round wins as momentum and helped them into the Championship round and/or Super Bowl (05 Steelers & Panthers, 06 Colts, 07 Giants & Chargers, 08 Ravens and Cardinals, 09 Jets). Hence, my favoritism to the Steelers playing a first round game vs. a team I KNOW they can beat (Jags/Colts, Chiefs/Chargers) and then onto New England or B-More.

However, I don't think the seeding will ultimately matter that much, because the AFC is rough this year and it's going to be a battle royale no matter which teams face otehrs in what round(s); but early momentum could certainly help a team out.

Bucfan wrote:
Here is my prediction .... some teams own other teams. The effing Patsies have the Steelers number. However, the Patsies DO NOT play well against or matchup the same against the Ravens.

The Ravens are the No. 6 seed at this point. I believe that the Ravens go 11-5, and finish with the 6 seed.

When the Ravens beat the 3 seed (Kansas City), they then take on the No. 1 seed (almost certainly the Patsies). I see the Rats betting the Pats, and then coming to Pittsburgh for another AFC Championship loss.

You heard it hear first.


That's a solid prediction (that I didn't consider) and one I could get behind. :idea:

You've rekindled my hope. Drinks on me when it happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:54 am 
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They were alot younger in 2005...They need the bye week to stay healthy...

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Man do I love the Defense (and Carson Palmer; wish we could play him every week!), but I loathe the offense.

I've been saying it for two years now and I won't stop until it happens: Fire Bruce Arians.

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 Post subject: Re: Stiller nation so quiet?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:08 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Man do I love the Defense (and Carson Palmer; wish we could play him every week!), but I loathe the offense.

I've been saying it for two years now and I won't stop until it happens: Fire Bruce Arians.


Agreed on concerns about the offense. The simple fact is that the offense cannot produce in the red zone, where it matters most.

How about play action on first down? No, no, no ... let's not throw until 3rd and goal, with empty backfield. That will slow the rush.

Or how about a desultory attempt at running, with 8 guys on the line of scrimmage, followed by a refusal to run on 2nd down, where the defense goes nickel? Guaranteed success ... for Suisham.


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