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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:55 am 
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Wow, Jeremy. So, is there any good basketball being played on the collegiate level?

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am 
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NDL wrote:
The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.


NDL -
You and I must not read the same publications because I haven't read anything this year coming close to proclaiming any "hype" regarding Big 10 basketball. I see a ton of press for Duke (because they are . . . well . . . Duke) and the Big East teams. After that, Kentucky and Kansas are what I would refer to as "media darlings." I guess Michigan State would be as close as it gets to being a "media darling." However, after the potential exception of MSU, none of the other top 3 (OSU, Wisco or Purdue) could be characterized as "over-hyped." Not even close.

Also, the NCAA selection committee certainly did not "overhype" any of the Big 10 selections. Of the 6 "BCS" conferences, the Big 10 conference champion (OSU) and the Pac 10 conference champion were not awarded a #1 seed. OSU was awarded a #2 seed. No Big 10 team was awarded a #3 seed. After OSU, you had Purdue and Wisconsin with #4 seeds, MSU with a #5 seed and Minnesota with a #11 seed. Thus, the NCAA tournament selection committee essentially determined that the Big 10 had 1 team in the top 8, 2 teams ranked from 13th - 16th, 1 team ranked 17th-20th and one other team between 41 and 44. If you compare that with the seeds received by Big East, ACC and Big 12 schools, you won't be left concluding that the Big 10 is being overhyped.

With respect to football . . . I have no idea what you've been reading over the last 5-7 years. Most publications and analysis of Big 10 football that I've read in that time period often use terms such as "unathletic," "slow," "plodding," "boring," and "behind the times."

As for trying to determine who had the better football conference this year, the top 4 teams in the Big 10 were darn good this year. And, looking ahead to the fall, you'll likely see 3 Big 10 teams in the top 20; maybe in the top 15 and an outside chance that you'll see two teams in the preseason top 10. OSU, Iowa and Wisky have a whole lotta talent coming back on both sides of the ball.

Outside of a something resembling a round robin schedule, it is hard to examine how the conferences would do head-to-head. True, Syracuse beat Northwestern early in the year which was an awful loss for Northwestern. However, Illinois ended up playing Cincy pretty close at the end of the year and Illinois was awful. Just not enough body of evidence.

Not saying that either Big 10 football or basketball is underrated. I'm just saying that anyone claiming them to be over rated might want to re-evaluate.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:17 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Wow, Jeremy. So, is there any good basketball being played on the collegiate level?



Have you been watching the NCAA tournament? There's a lot of good basketball out there. A senior laden Cornell squad is playing as well as anyone in America. Northern Iowa played the game of their lives against Kansas. The problem is people are so slavish to conferences. Big East this, Big Ten this, ACC blah blah.

Come tournament time (which is the only time that really matters) what conference you're in has nothing to do with how well you play.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Have you been watching the NCAA tournament? There's a lot of good basketball out there. A senior laden Cornell squad is playing as well as anyone in America. Northern Iowa played the game of their lives against Kansas. The problem is people are so slavish to conferences. Big East this, Big Ten this, ACC blah blah.

Come tournament time (which is the only time that really matters) what conference you're in has nothing to do with how well you play.


I agree, come tournament time it doesn't matter what conference you are in. But where there is smoke there is fire. When is the last time a non major conference team won the NCAA Championship? How about 1990 when UNLV won it. Another thing, the Pac 10 and Big 10 got a ton of criticism this year for not being strong and having down years. The Big 10 has three teams in the Sweet 16 and Pac 10 has two. The high level of play during conference season has a great deal of influence on going deep during the tournament. You'll see that when it gets to the Elite Eight there might only be one...maybe two non BCS teams remaining.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:52 pm 
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The Pac 10 only has one team (Washington) in the Sweet 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
The Pac 10 only has one team (Washington) in the Sweet 16.


I stand corrected, I forgot Cal lost to Duke.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:09 pm 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/03/23/big.ten/index.html?eref=sihp


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:47 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
NDL wrote:
The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.


NDL -
You and I must not read the same publications because I haven't read anything this year coming close to proclaiming any "hype" regarding Big 10 basketball. I see a ton of press for Duke (because they are . . . well . . . Duke) and the Big East teams. After that, Kentucky and Kansas are what I would refer to as "media darlings." I guess Michigan State would be as close as it gets to being a "media darling." However, after the potential exception of MSU, none of the other top 3 (OSU, Wisco or Purdue) could be characterized as "over-hyped." Not even close.

Also, the NCAA selection committee certainly did not "overhype" any of the Big 10 selections. Of the 6 "BCS" conferences, the Big 10 conference champion (OSU) and the Pac 10 conference champion were not awarded a #1 seed. OSU was awarded a #2 seed. No Big 10 team was awarded a #3 seed. After OSU, you had Purdue and Wisconsin with #4 seeds, MSU with a #5 seed and Minnesota with a #11 seed. Thus, the NCAA tournament selection committee essentially determined that the Big 10 had 1 team in the top 8, 2 teams ranked from 13th - 16th, 1 team ranked 17th-20th and one other team between 41 and 44. If you compare that with the seeds received by Big East, ACC and Big 12 schools, you won't be left concluding that the Big 10 is being overhyped.

With respect to football . . . I have no idea what you've been reading over the last 5-7 years. Most publications and analysis of Big 10 football that I've read in that time period often use terms such as "unathletic," "slow," "plodding," "boring," and "behind the times."

As for trying to determine who had the better football conference this year, the top 4 teams in the Big 10 were darn good this year. And, looking ahead to the fall, you'll likely see 3 Big 10 teams in the top 20; maybe in the top 15 and an outside chance that you'll see two teams in the preseason top 10. OSU, Iowa and Wisky have a whole lotta talent coming back on both sides of the ball.

Outside of a something resembling a round robin schedule, it is hard to examine how the conferences would do head-to-head. True, Syracuse beat Northwestern early in the year which was an awful loss for Northwestern. However, Illinois ended up playing Cincy pretty close at the end of the year and Illinois was awful. Just not enough body of evidence.

Not saying that either Big 10 football or basketball is underrated. I'm just saying that anyone claiming them to be over rated might want to re-evaluate.


I don't really read any publications on the matter. It's more just the impression I get from the occasional times I do watch ESPN. On occasion I do read Sports Illustrated as well.

Now, both of these media outlets are total crap. Secondly, the talk about Big 10 basketball was preseason and not during the season. What I heard about the conference preseason (basketball) was basically that it was strong, etc. That's just not the truth so I chalked that up as overrated. I also don't have good examples on this to point to so take that for what it's worth.

As far as the football, ESPN loves the Big 10. My experience with Sports Illustrated is that they love them too. Essentially, though, this is just a focus on the top teams and not the conference as a whole.

In general I think we are in agreement about where the conferences stand. Big 10 football is clearly top heavy and the teams at the top are very solid. In basketball they have a few decent programs but are clearly far behind the Big East. In football, you are right that it is difficult to say who has a better conference. Probably head to head and records in bowl games help determine who was better in any given season as best we can tell.

Also, I don't watch ESPN often or read Sports Illustrated often. This is just my opinion from what I have seen and read in this outlets about the conferences. It was also a long time ago that I made these assessments.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:07 pm 
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And Syracuse goes down.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Boys, boys, boys. My guys are in the dinal four. The Big East really did disappoint but the conference has nothing to prove about the best. Top10 of them are tremendous and beat each other to death.

My Mounties have a chance here and I'll be glued to the TV. Think Duke is over-rated and the other two were 5 seeds. So, we have a decent chance. Go Mountaineers.

It's about the whole state and our pride.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Boys, boys, boys. My guys are in the dinal four. The Big East really did disappoint but the conference has nothing to prove about the best. Top10 of them are tremendous and beat each other to death.

My Mounties have a chance here and I'll be glued to the TV. Think Duke is over-rated and the other two were 5 seeds. So, we have a decent chance. Go Mountaineers.

It's about the whole state and our pride.


I'll certainly be pulling for the Mountaineers to win the whole enchilada. As long as Butler doesn't win (I love the big conferences, not mid-majors).

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Go Butler. I we nt on a recruiting trip way back in the day. Hinkle Fieldhouse was like a big old barn at the time. I understand it has had a makeover but back then it just looked really old.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:30 am 
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I was clearly wrong about Duke or they payedtheir best game ever. Now, I'll route for Butler the underdog.

BTW, I didn't used to care for Huggins but seeing him with Butler on the floor says alot about his feelings for his guys, probably important to his success as a coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Duke or they payedtheir best game ever. Now, I'll route for Butler the underdog.

BTW, I didn't used to care for Huggins but seeing him with Butler on the floor says alot about his feelings for his guys, probably important to his success as a coach.


Sorry Sub.
Was pulling for your guys despite the fact that Huggins is your coach. Just can't stand the smug self-righteousness of those Dukies. Pulling hard for the Bulldogs on Monday. Real hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:31 pm 
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NDL wrote:

What I heard about the conference preseason (basketball) was basically that it was strong, etc. That's just not the truth so I chalked that up as overrated. I also don't have good examples on this to point to so take that for what it's worth.


The Big East basketball conference has more teams so they have a greater quantity of better teams. However, I vehemently disagree with any contention that the Big 10 was not a strong basketball conference this year. You say Iowa, I say DePaul. You say Indiana, I say Rutgers. You say Syracuse, I say Ohio State. You say West Virginia, I say Michigan State.

Your suggestion that ESPN loves Big 10 football is an incredible generalization. ESPN has a contract to telecast Big 10 football games so don't confuse promotion of games with "overrating" the conference. Read the articles, read the commentaries and listen to their radio personalities. The Big 10 has been their punching bag for many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:33 pm 
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My problem is Rich Rod and his lies to WVU. I relly hope he doesn't win again this year annd then look for new employment.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:33 pm 
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My problem is Rich Rod and his lies to WVU. I relly hope he doesn't win again this year annd then look for new employment.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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