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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:39 am 
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Most overrated conference in America hands down.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Most overrated conference in America hands down.


Gimme a break. Over a full season, the eight teams in the Big East that made the tourney would win or be at the top of every league. The talent level isn't comparable. They just had a bad day.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:02 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Most overrated conference in America hands down.


Gimme a break. Over a full season, the eight teams in the Big East that made the tourney would win or be at the top of every league. The talent level isn't comparable. They just had a bad day.


BB -
Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Georgetown, Pittsburgh and Villanova would either win or be at the top of any league in the country.
I respectfully disagree about Notre Dame, Marquette and Louisville. They'd be good teams but I'm not willing to concede that they'd finish above Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan State or Purdue (assuming a healthy Hummel) in the Big 10. And, by writing that, I'm not saying that they'd be dominated, I'm simply claiming that they'd have their hands full in many Big 10 arenas. I'd also put Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan State and a healthy Purdue against any of the top 5 Big East teams this year. Not saying that they'd dominate or even win the majority of the games; just saying that it would make for some very entertaining and close basketball games.
The Big East is deep. The Big East is a great basketball conference. However, the media love fest with the Big East is almost Tebowesque and, for those of us who do not worship at the Big East basketball alter, a bit tiresome and over the top.
I am not one who is going to judge a conference by one day in a lose-and-out tournament. The Big East has done well today. Pitt, WVU and Syracuse beat up on teams that they should have beat up on. Louisville is losing right now (I soooo hate Pitino) and, if it stays that way, the Big East will be 4-4 after round one. I fully expect them to go no worse than 3-1 in the second round. The Big East is fine; just a tough day. However, yesterday goes to show that good basketball is indeed played by teams who aren't in the Big East conference.

Your point is well-taken . . . anyone attempting to throw the Big East under the bus after yesterday is simply being a reactionist.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:22 am 
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No. 9, yes the Big East gets hyped by the media, but that doesn't diminish how good the conference is. See Tim Tebow.

My point was that those four teams would be in the mix to win any league including the Big 10. Doesn't mean they would win, but they would be right there. Same goes for the ACC, Big 12, SEC.

The fact that three of those teams won in the quarterfinals of the BE Tourney illustrates my point. The league kills each other all season long. Go look at Georgetown's schedule. The the fact the BE has a gigantic out-of-conference win percentage makes my point even more.

I know its not the only basketball out there, but there is no doubt it is the best league and the one bad day doesn't mean those teams didn't deserve to be there.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:27 am 
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After 3 days of the NCAA tournament.....still the most overrated conference in America.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:53 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
After 3 days of the NCAA tournament.....still the most overrated conference in America.


As a whole? I disagree on that.

The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.

Nobody cares about Big East football and so if you want to say most overrated conference, I think the Big 10 is currently the choice. They're hyped whether they're good or not. The Big East is hyped in basketball where they are good but not in football where they really weren't any worse than the Big 10 last season.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:15 am 
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NDL wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
After 3 days of the NCAA tournament.....still the most overrated conference in America.


As a whole? I disagree on that.

The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.

Nobody cares about Big East football and so if you want to say most overrated conference, I think the Big 10 is currently the choice. They're hyped whether they're good or not. The Big East is hyped in basketball where they are good but not in football where they really weren't any worse than the Big 10 last season.



We're talking about basketball.....as the Big East was clearly overrated this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:22 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
We're talking about basketball.....as the Big East was clearly overrated this year.


I couldn't disagree more. A weekend of basketball can't replace what a conference did for an entire year. I got into an argument today with a Northern Iowa fan. He went as far as saying the Panthers would easily have been a top 3 team in the Big 12. Really? You won a toss-up game with UNLV and then played the game of your life against a Kansas team that didn't show up.

In conferences like the Big East and Big 12, you don't have any room to breath. You go from game-to-game against good teams in great arenas or great teams in great arenas. When teams get to the Big Dance you can lay it all on the line and throw everything at your opponent. You rarely...very rarely see Cinderella get past the Sweet 16 because the bigger teams have a chance to prepare for their opponents.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:16 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
We're talking about basketball.....as the Big East was clearly overrated this year.


I couldn't disagree more. A weekend of basketball can't replace what a conference did for an entire year. I got into an argument today with a Northern Iowa fan. He went as far as saying the Panthers would easily have been a top 3 team in the Big 12. Really? You won a toss-up game with UNLV and then played the game of your life against a Kansas team that didn't show up.

In conferences like the Big East and Big 12, you don't have any room to breath. You go from game-to-game against good teams in great arenas or great teams in great arenas. When teams get to the Big Dance you can lay it all on the line and throw everything at your opponent. You rarely...very rarely see Cinderella get past the Sweet 16 because the bigger teams have a chance to prepare for their opponents.



Nope sorry....that's a tired excuse that most fans have started to see right through. The Big East was overhyped by the Eastern media and then exposed for the soft conference that they were. As far as the Big 12 goes, well everyone knows just how sad that conference was from the get go.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:54 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:55 am 
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Wow, Jeremy. So, is there any good basketball being played on the collegiate level?

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am 
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NDL wrote:
The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.


NDL -
You and I must not read the same publications because I haven't read anything this year coming close to proclaiming any "hype" regarding Big 10 basketball. I see a ton of press for Duke (because they are . . . well . . . Duke) and the Big East teams. After that, Kentucky and Kansas are what I would refer to as "media darlings." I guess Michigan State would be as close as it gets to being a "media darling." However, after the potential exception of MSU, none of the other top 3 (OSU, Wisco or Purdue) could be characterized as "over-hyped." Not even close.

Also, the NCAA selection committee certainly did not "overhype" any of the Big 10 selections. Of the 6 "BCS" conferences, the Big 10 conference champion (OSU) and the Pac 10 conference champion were not awarded a #1 seed. OSU was awarded a #2 seed. No Big 10 team was awarded a #3 seed. After OSU, you had Purdue and Wisconsin with #4 seeds, MSU with a #5 seed and Minnesota with a #11 seed. Thus, the NCAA tournament selection committee essentially determined that the Big 10 had 1 team in the top 8, 2 teams ranked from 13th - 16th, 1 team ranked 17th-20th and one other team between 41 and 44. If you compare that with the seeds received by Big East, ACC and Big 12 schools, you won't be left concluding that the Big 10 is being overhyped.

With respect to football . . . I have no idea what you've been reading over the last 5-7 years. Most publications and analysis of Big 10 football that I've read in that time period often use terms such as "unathletic," "slow," "plodding," "boring," and "behind the times."

As for trying to determine who had the better football conference this year, the top 4 teams in the Big 10 were darn good this year. And, looking ahead to the fall, you'll likely see 3 Big 10 teams in the top 20; maybe in the top 15 and an outside chance that you'll see two teams in the preseason top 10. OSU, Iowa and Wisky have a whole lotta talent coming back on both sides of the ball.

Outside of a something resembling a round robin schedule, it is hard to examine how the conferences would do head-to-head. True, Syracuse beat Northwestern early in the year which was an awful loss for Northwestern. However, Illinois ended up playing Cincy pretty close at the end of the year and Illinois was awful. Just not enough body of evidence.

Not saying that either Big 10 football or basketball is underrated. I'm just saying that anyone claiming them to be over rated might want to re-evaluate.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:17 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Wow, Jeremy. So, is there any good basketball being played on the collegiate level?



Have you been watching the NCAA tournament? There's a lot of good basketball out there. A senior laden Cornell squad is playing as well as anyone in America. Northern Iowa played the game of their lives against Kansas. The problem is people are so slavish to conferences. Big East this, Big Ten this, ACC blah blah.

Come tournament time (which is the only time that really matters) what conference you're in has nothing to do with how well you play.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:04 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Have you been watching the NCAA tournament? There's a lot of good basketball out there. A senior laden Cornell squad is playing as well as anyone in America. Northern Iowa played the game of their lives against Kansas. The problem is people are so slavish to conferences. Big East this, Big Ten this, ACC blah blah.

Come tournament time (which is the only time that really matters) what conference you're in has nothing to do with how well you play.


I agree, come tournament time it doesn't matter what conference you are in. But where there is smoke there is fire. When is the last time a non major conference team won the NCAA Championship? How about 1990 when UNLV won it. Another thing, the Pac 10 and Big 10 got a ton of criticism this year for not being strong and having down years. The Big 10 has three teams in the Sweet 16 and Pac 10 has two. The high level of play during conference season has a great deal of influence on going deep during the tournament. You'll see that when it gets to the Elite Eight there might only be one...maybe two non BCS teams remaining.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:52 pm 
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The Pac 10 only has one team (Washington) in the Sweet 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
The Pac 10 only has one team (Washington) in the Sweet 16.


I stand corrected, I forgot Cal lost to Duke.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:09 pm 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/03/23/big.ten/index.html?eref=sihp


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:47 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
NDL wrote:
The Big East is a very competitive basketball conference. I'm not sure that it's the best. You get a lot of conflicting opinions on that. Some would say ACC, others Big East. I think, clearly, it's a short list that you look at in this discussion and the Big East makes the list for sure.

As a whole, the Big 10 is probably the most overrated conference. They get hyped by the media in both football and basketball. Football wise, the Big 10 wasn't any more competitive than the Big East this year. They did have a better team at the top but the Big East had better teams in the middle and probably more competition within the league all year. Basketball wise the Big 10 is no great shakes but they do get media hype.


NDL -
You and I must not read the same publications because I haven't read anything this year coming close to proclaiming any "hype" regarding Big 10 basketball. I see a ton of press for Duke (because they are . . . well . . . Duke) and the Big East teams. After that, Kentucky and Kansas are what I would refer to as "media darlings." I guess Michigan State would be as close as it gets to being a "media darling." However, after the potential exception of MSU, none of the other top 3 (OSU, Wisco or Purdue) could be characterized as "over-hyped." Not even close.

Also, the NCAA selection committee certainly did not "overhype" any of the Big 10 selections. Of the 6 "BCS" conferences, the Big 10 conference champion (OSU) and the Pac 10 conference champion were not awarded a #1 seed. OSU was awarded a #2 seed. No Big 10 team was awarded a #3 seed. After OSU, you had Purdue and Wisconsin with #4 seeds, MSU with a #5 seed and Minnesota with a #11 seed. Thus, the NCAA tournament selection committee essentially determined that the Big 10 had 1 team in the top 8, 2 teams ranked from 13th - 16th, 1 team ranked 17th-20th and one other team between 41 and 44. If you compare that with the seeds received by Big East, ACC and Big 12 schools, you won't be left concluding that the Big 10 is being overhyped.

With respect to football . . . I have no idea what you've been reading over the last 5-7 years. Most publications and analysis of Big 10 football that I've read in that time period often use terms such as "unathletic," "slow," "plodding," "boring," and "behind the times."

As for trying to determine who had the better football conference this year, the top 4 teams in the Big 10 were darn good this year. And, looking ahead to the fall, you'll likely see 3 Big 10 teams in the top 20; maybe in the top 15 and an outside chance that you'll see two teams in the preseason top 10. OSU, Iowa and Wisky have a whole lotta talent coming back on both sides of the ball.

Outside of a something resembling a round robin schedule, it is hard to examine how the conferences would do head-to-head. True, Syracuse beat Northwestern early in the year which was an awful loss for Northwestern. However, Illinois ended up playing Cincy pretty close at the end of the year and Illinois was awful. Just not enough body of evidence.

Not saying that either Big 10 football or basketball is underrated. I'm just saying that anyone claiming them to be over rated might want to re-evaluate.


I don't really read any publications on the matter. It's more just the impression I get from the occasional times I do watch ESPN. On occasion I do read Sports Illustrated as well.

Now, both of these media outlets are total crap. Secondly, the talk about Big 10 basketball was preseason and not during the season. What I heard about the conference preseason (basketball) was basically that it was strong, etc. That's just not the truth so I chalked that up as overrated. I also don't have good examples on this to point to so take that for what it's worth.

As far as the football, ESPN loves the Big 10. My experience with Sports Illustrated is that they love them too. Essentially, though, this is just a focus on the top teams and not the conference as a whole.

In general I think we are in agreement about where the conferences stand. Big 10 football is clearly top heavy and the teams at the top are very solid. In basketball they have a few decent programs but are clearly far behind the Big East. In football, you are right that it is difficult to say who has a better conference. Probably head to head and records in bowl games help determine who was better in any given season as best we can tell.

Also, I don't watch ESPN often or read Sports Illustrated often. This is just my opinion from what I have seen and read in this outlets about the conferences. It was also a long time ago that I made these assessments.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:07 pm 
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And Syracuse goes down.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Boys, boys, boys. My guys are in the dinal four. The Big East really did disappoint but the conference has nothing to prove about the best. Top10 of them are tremendous and beat each other to death.

My Mounties have a chance here and I'll be glued to the TV. Think Duke is over-rated and the other two were 5 seeds. So, we have a decent chance. Go Mountaineers.

It's about the whole state and our pride.

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