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 Post subject: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:16 am 
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Read some internet rumors on Rivals sites claiming that Pitt to the Big 10 is a done deal and it could be announced as early as 2/4/10.

I don't believe it due to the fact that the Big 10 commissioner recently said that they will take a year to 18 months to examine the situation and determine what school would be the best potential fit to add a 12th team.

Just curious if there is any "momentum" to this in the Pitt area.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:27 am 
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There were enough rumblings that Jamie Dixon, Pitts BB coach, made a public statement that Pitt should NOT go to the Big 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:22 pm 
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It would be a blow to their basketball program, but football rules. They would immediately become a national championship contender by playing in the Big 10, granted they would have to be better than the other Big 10 teams. That didn't make any sense, but you know what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:02 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
It would be a blow to their basketball program, but football rules. They would immediately become a national championship contender by playing in the Big 10, granted they would have to be better than the other Big 10 teams. That didn't make any sense, but you know what I mean.


Er uh What?

I understand what you mean. Being the Big 10 champ and going undefeated in that conference would give whatever team a better chance than a Big East champ to be #1 or #2 and a chance to play in a championship game. However 2 years ago W Virginia was all but assured a chance to play in the title game but they choked vs Pitt. Voting two teams to a championship game is so wrong

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Rumors here are that they put a hold on new apparel production, from the ever trustworthy "inside source" ;-)

Seriously, this works in so many ways for the Big Ten. They add a basketball power program to help with the recently sagging national image and they get some great money making matchups in football with a championship game and 2 divisions. Apparently, the papers suggest it works well for the non-revenue sports as well.

What would the divisions be? My Guess -
East - PSU, Pitt, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St., plus 1
West - Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue

Who would you move to the East division? Its hard to breakup Indiana/Purdue but that would make sense.

In that setup they get their big 4 money schools playing each other every year, then a title game against Wisconsin/Iowa. Its imbalanced in football for sure, but most of the other conferences are as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Yeah, from the Pitt AD perspective this has to be a no-brainer. Splitting football monies with Michigan, PSU, OSU, etc. rather than Rutgers, Cincinnati, South Florida has got to be an easy decision.

And, while the BB program is stepping down a notch, it certainly ain't a freefall.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:33 pm 
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I predict if they make the move, Dixon will look elsewhere for a job, sooner, not later. That would be a big loss.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I predict if they make the move, Dixon will look elsewhere for a job, sooner, not later. That would be a big loss.

I'm against the move as well. It would absolutely KILL basketball recruiting.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:16 pm 
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I have been following this since the Big 10 released a statement a while back stating they were going to be looking at potential expansion.

From what I can tell, Pitt will be on the list to be considered for Big 10 expansion when the time comes. Pitt meets the requirements academically and has good enough athletic programs to go toe to toe with Big 10 schools, particularly in the major sports of football and men's basketball.

I think what happened is that a few days ago a rumor started on a message board that Pitt had been invited to join the Big 10 and were going to accept and release this information during a press conference as early as this Tuesday, 2/2/10 or as late as Friday, 2/5/10. People are claiming they have "inside" sources on both sides. Some are saying that this is going to happen, and others are saying that it isn't going to happen. In any event, the rumor seems to be that the Pitt student athletes were told at a meeting this past week that they were going to be joining the Big 10 conference. The rumor goes that the athletes then leaked this information on twitter. Supposedly, the tweets have been deleted since then.

Now, there are supposedly reports from all different people and sources that this is either going to happen or not. Supposedly the Big 10 has issued a statement through some unnamed source saying it is not happening; they are sticking to their timeline of 12-18 months to consider the idea of expansion and they will start a process after that time to look at potential candidates if they want to expand.

The bottom line is that there is some truth for sure: the Big 10 is looking to expand. As far as it being immediate or happening this week, I doubt it. I wouldn't be too surprised if they have already contacted schools they are interested in adding such as Pitt. I would also be shocked if Pitt would say no because they would instantly be the conference with the best TV contract in college football (better per school than Notre Dame's deal with NBC). The money and prestige would be huge for Pitt.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:38 am 
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Rumor apparently quashed . . . at least as to the timetable.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/20 ... g-ten.html

In my mind, it will come down to Pitt or Missouri. There has been some momentum behind making a play for Texas (if you look at the $$$$, it would be huge for Texas), but I just don't see Texas wanting to bail on its tradition - dollars be damned. ND is always mentioned but ND is not interested. However, the $$$$ for them is now far different than when they told the Big 10 to stick it some time ago. Their alumni have zero interest in giving up their Independent status. They can schedule 7 home football games, 4 away games and one game at a neutral site. If they affiliate with any conference, they lose a massive amount of freedom.

Outside of my personal preference, I'm betting on Missouri due to (1) geography and (2) tapping into the St. Louis televison market. With all due respect to Pitt, PSU is the "big draw" in Pennsylvania. Adding Pitt to the Big 10 will only marginally add to the television numbers. Tapping into St. Louis will add to the number of televisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:59 am 
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I don't think there is any way Texas will join the Big 10. I don't even think the Big 10 would ask Texas to join them. They're incredibly far away for one. Secondly, they are entrenched and in control of the Big 12 conference. They've got tradition with current Big 12 teams that they would be stupid to throw out - OU, Texas Tech, A&M.

Not only that, but if I am not mistaken, the Big 12 doesn't share revenue evenly as the Big 10 does which means Texas gets a bigger piece of the pie there than the other teams. What's not to like about that? The Big 12 will also get another chance to re-negotiate a TV contract and perhaps they will decide to go the route of the Big 10 and start their own network at that time. If they do, it means money. They probably play a better brand of football than the Big 10 anyways.

Missouri wouldn't be a poor choice for the Big 10. It would add a new TV market. The same can be said about Rutgers and Syracuse. In the end, though, I don't think that Rutgers or Syracuse would really be that big of a draw. I hear a lot about TV markets but what you have to realize is that just because a team is located near a certain market (NYC in this case) doesn't mean you are going to be able to bully that market into putting your channel on the sets as a subscription. People would have to care about Rutgers or Syracuse football before that could happen. I don't think that would work out so well for the Big 10. On the other hand, Missouri adds a market that would be likely to want the network.

All in all, I think Pitt is a good choice for the Big 10. If they aren't all consumed about extending the footprint to get another market for the Big 10 Network Pitt is an excellent choice. They only thing it doesn't bring is the TV market. I'm not sure how much I buy the TV market is the only reason they are expanding philosophy. I think part of it is that they want a championship game and another team would allow that to happen. I don't think the Big 10 is going to bring in a team who doesn't fit right with their conference just to get the new TV market either.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 am 
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There is less than .00000000001% chance that Texas would go to the Big 10. There is a better chance of Texas going the route of Notre Dame and becoming Independent than joining the Big 10.

NDL is absolutely correct about the Big XII and their TV contract. It is the worst TV contract for any major conference but it runs out in two years. Because of the huge success of both football and basketball the conference will negotiate some mega-deal that will stuff more $$$ into the pockets of the Texas and Oklahoma's of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:20 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Rumor apparently quashed . . . at least as to the timetable.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/20 ... g-ten.html

In my mind, it will come down to Pitt or Missouri. There has been some momentum behind making a play for Texas (if you look at the $$$$, it would be huge for Texas), but I just don't see Texas wanting to bail on its tradition - dollars be damned. ND is always mentioned but ND is not interested. However, the $$$$ for them is now far different than when they told the Big 10 to stick it some time ago. Their alumni have zero interest in giving up their Independent status. They can schedule 7 home football games, 4 away games and one game at a neutral site. If they affiliate with any conference, they lose a massive amount of freedom.

Outside of my personal preference, I'm betting on Missouri due to (1) geography and (2) tapping into the St. Louis televison market. With all due respect to Pitt, PSU is the "big draw" in Pennsylvania. Adding Pitt to the Big 10 will only marginally add to the television numbers. Tapping into St. Louis will add to the number of televisions.

I'm betting on Missouri due to Joe Paterno. He'd rather walk across hot coals barefoot than play Pitt.

And that's fine by me. I prefer the Big East for Pitt. It's not the worst football conference, and it's a great basketball conference.

Notre Dame better start rethinking their independent status. They're losing a little more of their reputation every year. The day is coming when they won't be able to attract an independent national TV contract unless they put together a string of top 10 teams pretty soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:17 pm 
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I can't stand Notre Dame but they are just fine where they are. They have a lucrative TV deal with NBC and no matter how poor they play they will get that contract renewed. Whatever bowl they play in they keep the payout and don't split withing the conference. When they play in a BCS game they keep roughly $10 million. Not bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:26 pm 
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The numbers have changed dramatically for ND and the BCS. The days of $10M payouts are over. They are capped at $4M per the latest agreement (which brought non-BCS conferences into play based upon final rankings). If ND gets a BCS bid, their FB revenue is competitive but still less than most Big 10 and SEC schools. Without a BCS, their revenues are way down - even with the NBC deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:17 pm 
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The reason I would like to see Pitt switch conferences is despite the fact that the on-field football product in the Big East may not be worse than the ACC or Big Ten, the Big East will never be recognized as such by the media or coaches who in rankings and therefore bowl projections have a voice. It doesn't matter that their opinions at times are irrational and based on myths.

Secondly, being a Pitt student and future graduate I would appreciate a move to the Big Ten because of the increase in academic prestige said move would bring to the university.

Finally I do admit I am very biased on this subject despite my attempts at staying open to debate, fair-minded, and level-headed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:31 pm 
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NDL wrote:
The reason I would like to see Pitt switch conferences is despite the fact that the on-field football product in the Big East may not be worse than the ACC or Big Ten, the Big East will never be recognized as such by the media or coaches who in rankings and therefore bowl projections have a voice. It doesn't matter that their opinions at times are irrational and based on myths.

Secondly, being a Pitt student and future graduate I would appreciate a move to the Big Ten because of the increase in academic prestige said move would bring to the university.

Finally I do admit I am very biased on this subject despite my attempts at staying open to debate, fair-minded, and level-headed.

That's just fine if you don't care what happens to Pitt basketball, which dries up and blows away if they leave the Big East.

Sorry, but Pitt is more likely to drag down the academic reputations of Big 10 schools than it is to benefit from them.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:38 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
That's just fine if you don't care what happens to Pitt basketball, which dries up and blows away if they leave the Big East...


Why? Because, you know, the Big 10 has really hurt Michigan St.

Pitt doesn't recruit Pitt anyways, they have always been a recruiter from many states and locations, and recruited for specific player types. That wouldn't change. If you are suggesting the 5 star NYC recruit will now turn down Pitt for Syracuse, well.... wait, they do that now.

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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:32 pm 
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Pitt would be a Big 10 power in basketball. Unfortunately, I think Jamie Dixon would be gone as soon as he could find another job which wouldn't be long.


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 Post subject: Re: Pitt to Big 10
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:51 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
NDL wrote:
The reason I would like to see Pitt switch conferences is despite the fact that the on-field football product in the Big East may not be worse than the ACC or Big Ten, the Big East will never be recognized as such by the media or coaches who in rankings and therefore bowl projections have a voice. It doesn't matter that their opinions at times are irrational and based on myths.

Secondly, being a Pitt student and future graduate I would appreciate a move to the Big Ten because of the increase in academic prestige said move would bring to the university.

Finally I do admit I am very biased on this subject despite my attempts at staying open to debate, fair-minded, and level-headed.

That's just fine if you don't care what happens to Pitt basketball, which dries up and blows away if they leave the Big East.

Sorry, but Pitt is more likely to drag down the academic reputations of Big 10 schools than it is to benefit from them.


First off, you're absolutely right that I don't care about Pitt basketball in this context. They're my team and I will support them no-matter what, however, when you weigh the basketball program in this context I could care less. The fact of the matter are two things: 1. I am concerned more than anything about academics since that affects my life personally and any benefit I may derive from decisions the university makes are the most important to me and 2. Football pays the bills in college athletics, not basketball with the exception of a few choice programs of which we are not a part.

Secondly, I think it is a complete myth that Pitt basketball is just going to die if Pitt were to move to the Big 10. For the same reasons that Big East football isn't as bad as it is made out to be in the media Big 10 basketball isn't as bad as it is made out to be by Big East fans on message boards. In addition, I think Big East basketball while traditionally a strong conference is overrated just a bit by the same folks aforementioned. As someone pointed out Michigan State has done just fine in the Big 10 in basketball as has Ohio State, Michigan, Purdue, and Indiana. There are bottom feeders in every league in every sport as well: the Big 10 has Penn State and we have Depaul in the Big East currently. It's just a fact of life.

In addition to this argument, keep in mind that by joining the Big 10 Pitt would have more money at their disposal by FAR to spend on athletics. The Big 10 currently has the most lucrative TV contract out of all the conferences. Each Big 10 team gets more individually than ND does from NBC for their TV deal. This cash could be used to help the athletic program in all sports, including basketball, which could benefit from facilities upgrades when they are due and whatever else the department needs.

What does it matter to a recruit that they are going to be playing in the Big 10 vs. the Big East? Pitt is still the same school in the same location with the same campus and presumably the same coaching staff. I'm open to hear debate on why basketball recruiting would be killed by a shift in conferences but as of right now I have not been convinced. The only real argument I heard was we are better able to recruit NY and NJ because the conference championship tournament is played at MSG. If recruits are basing where they are going to be spending their college days based solely on a conference tournament in NYC then I think there are bigger issues than worrying about switching conferences.

Finally, I am very surprised to see that you believe Pitt would drag down the academic reputation of the Big 10. I'm curious to see why you would say such a thing, but first I will post some facts for your consideration:

1. Pitt is a member of the AAU for being an outstanding research institution.

2. As a whole, Pitt is ranked by US News and World Report at #56 in terms of national universities (all of which the Big 10 schools are). This ranking is almost exactly average for a Big 10 school: Pitt ranks ahead of Purdue (61), Minnesota (61), Indiana (71), Michigan State (71) and Iowa (71) and is just 3 spots away from Ohio State at #53.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/page+3

3. Pitt has excellent graduate and professional schools headlined of course by the medical school (#13 in the country according to US News). In other words, Pitt is NOT just a fine undergraduate institution but is also a university who is taking a leading role in important research including hot topics such as AIDS and limb regeneration.

How is it that Pitt would lower the academic reputation of the Big 10?


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