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Allow Trade?
Poll ended at Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:38 pm
Yes 75%  75%  [ 6 ]
No 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 8
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 Post subject: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:38 pm 
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I have received a protest regarding the trade of Berkman and Meek for Cuddyer, Simon, and Hanrahan.

Instead of using my wisdom (or lack thereof) I will put it to a league vote. I would appreciate it if non-league members do not vote in this poll. Feel free to comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:33 am 
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I was the one who "protested" the trade. Let me say two things up front. I don't think there is anything "shady" going on with this trade by any stretch. And also I am not going to win the league. I'll be right in the middle AGAIN! So this isn't something personal on my part.

There were two things that made me voice my opinion on this trade. One is that I just don't see the merit in trading two guys who get saves(which is one of our categories) for one guy who doesn't. If it is for keeper purposes and the owner getting Meek wants him for next year, I'd wonder why wouldn't you just keep Hanrahan. Even with the first basemen in the trade...Cuddyer would seem a bit more valuable, especially with his position flexibility. But honestly that isn't my main reason for protest, because everyone has reasons for making trades.

My main reason is that when a team at the bottom of the standings(no offense) who is out of it trades with the league leader then I feel like the trade should really be even, or in this case something to do with keepers. I just don't see that with this trade. I think it's important to maintain the integrity of the "pennant race", if you will, and because of that I didn't think this was a very fair trade. Anyway...as I said to BBF, it isn't really a big deal. It matters little to me from a game standpoint. Just seemed like a weird trade, especially since it involved two teams at opposite ends of the standings.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:44 am 
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I voted for the trade even though it's a clear win for Bucfan. The reason I voted to allow the trade is based on the O rankings on yahoo. Berkman is the highest ranked player in the trade, and, even though he sucks, I think that makes the trade one that was made in earnest.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:25 am 
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I would like to make my reason for the trade...

Troy Glaus has turned into Kevin Young lately at 1st base and need an upgrade. Berkman, I have a feeling is going to get a lot of RBI's and Runs scored in the Yankees lineup...

Simon is looking like he's going to share his job to Gonzalez...Who knows how many saves the Pirates will get the rest of the year. Hanrahan for Meek is an equal trade...

I have not been impressed at all with Cuddyer, he's been too streaky, but he does have value with his multiple positions...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:56 pm 
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The trade is even, and was the product of quite a bit of negotiation. The trade is even for the following reasons:

  • Berkman has more power and more RBI potential than Cuddyer.
  • Twins new stadium is anti-HR to the highest level.
  • Simon is not a solid pitcher, other than saves.
  • Simon may well lose the saves to Mike Gonzalez.
  • That is why I picked up Gonzalez before this trade went through.
  • The deal is basically Hanrahan > Meek, Berkman > Cuddyer.

In a keeper league, however, Meek has quite a bit of value.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
The trade is even, and was the product of quite a bit of negotiation. The trade is even for the following reasons:

  • Berkman has more power and more RBI potential than Cuddyer.
  • Twins new stadium is anti-HR to the highest level.
  • Simon is not a solid pitcher, other than saves.
  • Simon may well lose the saves to Mike Gonzalez.
  • That is why I picked up Gonzalez before this trade went through.
  • The deal is basically Hanrahan > Meek, Berkman > Cuddyer.

In a keeper league, however, Meek has quite a bit of value.


Again I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but this is far from even. Meek has value ONLY if he becomes a closer. There is currently no indication he will. Could win the job next year but that is speculation. Hanrahan has been lights out(last night excluded). And again, Gonzo moving back to closer is speculation. I have Cuddyer in another league and have been disappointed. Not as disappointed as if I had Berkman. Berkman may hit a couple more HR's going forward...maybe. Cuddyer offers position flex as well. I'm not going to get into a big argument over this cause I don't stand a chance anyway but I would dispute that this is an even trade...and I would probably be pissed if I was trying to catch you and saw one of the bottom level teams make this trade with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:44 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
In a keeper league, however, Meek has quite a bit of value.


Ok, here is where I call bullshit.

We only keep 10 players- the only relievers who are ever valuable enough to be kept are the top flight closers- Papelbon, Rivera, Nathan (before this year), etc. Certainly, no one would ever keep Evan Meek. Seriously??

Obviously, at this point the trade will go through, because out of 10 votes, there have been 6 yes's (and I have yet to vote). So I guess I can offer my I have to say that while this isn't as lopsided as some trades we have seen in this league that went unprotested (Utley and Reynolds for Ibanez??) it is a clear win for Bucfan.

I get that bottom teams should be looking to deal off closers and other non-keepable assets in exchange for players they might be able to keep. But is Berkman that much more "keepable" than Cuddyer? His OBP and slugging continue to slip each year, and his HR total this year is a joke- of the 13, how many of them were pop ups into the Crawford boxes (and many of those were courtesy of our beloved Buccos). Yes, historically Berkman is clearly the better player, but equally obvious is that he has been declining (at least IMO). Assuming he doesn't have an unforseen resurgence, you are looking at a 35 year old 15-20 HR hitter with no SB, and solid OBP from here on out, with only 1B eligibility. Keepable- yes (though I would likely not keep him). Ideal- no. If you asked me, I would guess that both Berkman and Cuddyer are equal bets to hit 15 hr with a .350 obp next year.

Maybe dan did shop around and this is the highest caliber player he could land. And I don't think this trade was done in a malicious spirit. But I have to agree with Parrot that Bucfan clearly wins, and it certainly doesn't help me out ( :cry: ). Of course, if Berkman does return to form next year and crank 30 HR (which he hasn't done since 07) then we look like idiots and dan is clearly a fantasy baseball genius.

And dan, I hope you don't take it personally that I disagree with your strategy- I certainly don't mean to imply you are stupid or something. Just not the way I would be playing it if I were in your shoes.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:06 pm 
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BBF - I manuevered my roster this year to try and make room to keep Meek. He is a future closer who will feature high K rate, low WHIP, low ERA and help out in 4 categories. Looking at some of the crap closers in baseball, he will be a top player at the position when he takes over closer duties.

And when will that be? Next year. Hanrahan, if he succeeds in the role, will be dealt since a guy with his stuff who succeeds will have great trade value. Huntington is going to maximize the value by dealing him, where he has Meek to take over the duty. If Hanrahan fails in the role, Meek takes over by default and Hanrahan goes back to 8th inning duty.

So call it whatever you want, but I was looking at keeping Meek. Oh, and I acquired Meek in a trade, where I dealt Nolasco and Bartlett. Meek was a player I wanted in that deal, believing that he was the closer-to-be for the Pirates. He did not take over the closer role, but in the interim, logged a great WHIP, ERA and K's for the number of IP. He produces in 3 categories, and that will be 4 when he takes over as closer.

As for Berkman and Cuddyer ... neither one is producing like a keeper. But Cuddyer's HR production is just not acceptable for a corner infielder. You criticize Berkman's HR production, but he missed the first month of the year with injury and has hit 13 HR's in 317 AB's. Cuddyer has hit 10 HR's in 414 AB's. No contest, particularly where Minnesota's park is killing power numbers.

Finally, Simon is good for one - ONE - category: saves. He has a high ERA, high WHIP, relatively low K's, and pitches against the Red Sox, Rays, Yankees and Blue Jays. Putting value on him is an example of not taking the whole picture into account. When he loses his closer role, he is going to get cut.

We all have our theories on how to build teams. I have followed my theory through thick and thin. The production I have received is from a shitload of roster moves, the vast majority involving free agents. I picked up Philip Hughes, Ricky Nolasco, Brett Gardner, Kevin Gregg, Madison Bumgarner, Travis Wood, Alex Gonzalez, Troy Glaus, and Tim Hudson as free agents. I did so by watching who was playing, which pitchers were dealing, which players were available.

I have made fair and genuine trade proposals to almost everybody in the league. The trade in question took three days and five offers and counter-offers to bring about. Dan noted that Hanrahan was available, and I worked on coming up with an offer that would work for both of us. He needed help at first base, and I needed help at closer. The protests about the trade are somewhat surprising, and based at least in part on the clearly incorrect belief that Cuddyer is a genuine contributor at a corner IF position.

No, he is not. He is mediocre.


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:13 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
In a keeper league, however, Meek has quite a bit of value.


Ok, here is where I call bullshit.

We only keep 10 players- the only relievers who are ever valuable enough to be kept are the top flight closers- Papelbon, Rivera, Nathan (before this year), etc. Certainly, no one would ever keep Evan Meek. Seriously??

Obviously, at this point the trade will go through, because out of 10 votes, there have been 6 yes's (and I have yet to vote). So I guess I can offer my I have to say that while this isn't as lopsided as some trades we have seen in this league that went unprotested (Utley and Reynolds for Ibanez??) it is a clear win for Bucfan.

I get that bottom teams should be looking to deal off closers and other non-keepable assets in exchange for players they might be able to keep. But is Berkman that much more "keepable" than Cuddyer? His OBP and slugging continue to slip each year, and his HR total this year is a joke- of the 13, how many of them were pop ups into the Crawford boxes (and many of those were courtesy of our beloved Buccos). Yes, historically Berkman is clearly the better player, but equally obvious is that he has been declining (at least IMO). Assuming he doesn't have an unforseen resurgence, you are looking at a 35 year old 15-20 HR hitter with no SB, and solid OBP from here on out, with only 1B eligibility. Keepable- yes (though I would likely not keep him). Ideal- no. If you asked me, I would guess that both Berkman and Cuddyer are equal bets to hit 15 hr with a .350 obp next year.

Maybe dan did shop around and this is the highest caliber player he could land. And I don't think this trade was done in a malicious spirit. But I have to agree with Parrot that Bucfan clearly wins, and it certainly doesn't help me out ( :cry: ). Of course, if Berkman does return to form next year and crank 30 HR (which he hasn't done since 07) then we look like idiots and dan is clearly a fantasy baseball genius.

And dan, I hope you don't take it personally that I disagree with your strategy- I certainly don't mean to imply you are stupid or something. Just not the way I would be playing it if I were in your shoes.


I'm not taking it personally, I'm banking on Berkman turning around his offense in the bandbox at the new Yankee Stadium and being surrounded by Swisher, A Rod, and Co. May be he gets some better pitches since he isnt the center of attention like he was in Houston...Who knows what will happen with Meek or Hanrahan at this point and saves from either are probably far and few between...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Just wanted to add (without voting) that I'm always fascinated by Fantasy trade approvals/discussion.

yeah, some are ridiculous, but if it merits discussion, isn't that an automatic vote for "it should stand"?

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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:29 pm 
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bucfan and I joked that once the trade went through to watch Russell switch Meek to the closer role and Hanrahan to the setup role...

Hanrahan just got lit up...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Is it too late for me to protest the trade?


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 Post subject: Re: Protested Trade
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:39 pm 
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haha...I just came on here to rescind my protest!


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