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 Post subject: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:11 am 
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http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... bfe5a.html

Points of interest:
Beltran refused to call Harrison's hit dirty but . . . he certainly suggests that Harrison should have slid.
One Cardinal hero who apparently didn't want his name used commented that Harrison would have been safe if he slid and that the collision was "not the play."

Gentlemen . . . watch the replay. If he slides, he's out. No path to the plate. None.

Also, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter asserts that Hurdle was upset because Westbrook wasn't warned after Harrison was hit by the pitch. Talk about not having a clue . . .

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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:21 am 
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Location: Way too far from Pittsburgh.....
Agreed - if he slid, he would have been out. Molina had the plate blocked - as he should - and Harrison made the only play he could - as he should.

Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with? Tabata's hit got to Beltran on one hop, and Beltran was able to really take his time and set himself before making the throw. I'm all for being aggressive on the bases, but I also know we had our 2-3-4 guys coming up. Just a thought....


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:24 am 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Agreed - if he slid, he would have been out. Molina had the plate blocked - as he should - and Harrison made the only play he could - as he should.

Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with? Tabata's hit got to Beltran on one hop, and Beltran was able to really take his time and set himself before making the throw. I'm all for being aggressive on the bases, but I also know we had our 2-3-4 guys coming up. Just a thought....


Did anyone see Leyva wave him around? Harrison is a hustler, he might have ran through the stop sign.

Westbrook wasn't warned but the umpire warned both benches after Harrison was plunked.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:27 am 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Agreed - if he slid, he would have been out. Molina had the plate blocked - as he should - and Harrison made the only play he could - as he should.

Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with? Tabata's hit got to Beltran on one hop, and Beltran was able to really take his time and set himself before making the throw. I'm all for being aggressive on the bases, but I also know we had our 2-3-4 guys coming up. Just a thought....


Just a hard-nosed baseball play. It always pisses me off when professionals think they can have it all their way and the other guy is supposed to just defer. You wanna block the plate? Then you damn well better be sure you might get run blitzkrieged right across the head.

I didn't hate the decision there by Leyva with 2 outs. In general though I think he's a trainwreck of a 3rd base coach.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with?


Leyva was miked up for the game and they showed a replay with him sending him.....I send him too....Make them make the play....they did... 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Scrap Iron wrote:
Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with?


Leyva was miked up for the game and they showed a replay with him sending him.....I send him too....Make them make the play....they did... 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


Fully agree with Az.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:04 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Scrap Iron wrote:
Agreed - if he slid, he would have been out. Molina had the plate blocked - as he should - and Harrison made the only play he could - as he should.

Backing up, though - anyone wonder why Leyva sent him to begin with? Tabata's hit got to Beltran on one hop, and Beltran was able to really take his time and set himself before making the throw. I'm all for being aggressive on the bases, but I also know we had our 2-3-4 guys coming up. Just a thought....


Did anyone see Leyva wave him around? Harrison is a hustler, he might have ran through the stop sign.

Westbrook wasn't warned but the umpire warned both benches after Harrison was plunked.


I was listening to the game on XM and when the ump warned the benches after Westbrook plunked Harrison Bob Walk went ape-sh*t. He (rightfully IMO) went off on the MLB "warning" rule and how it was used in that situation. He actually came dangerously close to cursing. His point is that it now takes any potential policing by the players out of the Pirates hands. He said that if the ump believed that Westbrook threw at Harrison on purpose he should have launched Westbrook but the MLB rule dictates that there be warnings. I have never heard Walk so pissed. It was funny but, maybe because he was afraid he may curse, after saying how great it was that Barmes made Westbrook pay with earned runs, he didn't say anything for quite awhile. In fact, Neverett baited him into talking again by saying "so Bob, tell us how you feel about the MLB rule on giving warnings to benches..."


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:27 pm 
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yes he was pissed and so am I. Back in Walk's day and prior to a few years ago this was handled by the players. Now MLB's rule allows a "free shot" to the team that can pull it off first....Reds, Cardinals.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:37 pm 
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I can't fault sending him, though personally I'd have held him up. I fully get "make 'em make a play", and subscribe to that style of ball. The Cards made us make a play the other night - make us do a relay from center field to home to get a guy at the plate, and we made the play - good stuff all around. Last night, though, a one-hopper to a good right fielder with 2-3-4 coming up (albeit with 2 outs) - I think the better chance to score would have been with Snider up and runners on first and third.

Again, I don't hate the play - it's just the kind of play I like to kick around and talk about. And - did the collision send a message to the rest of the team? Who really knows about that kind of stuff, but maybe.....


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
I can't fault sending him, though personally I'd have held him up. I fully get "make 'em make a play", and subscribe to that style of ball. The Cards made us make a play the other night - make us do a relay from center field to home to get a guy at the plate, and we made the play - good stuff all around. Last night, though, a one-hopper to a good right fielder with 2-3-4 coming up (albeit with 2 outs) - I think the better chance to score would have been with Snider up and runners on first and third.

Again, I don't hate the play - it's just the kind of play I like to kick around and talk about. And - did the collision send a message to the rest of the team? Who really knows about that kind of stuff, but maybe.....



It's certainly debatable but I think with 2 outs, I say make them make the play and let 2-3-4 come up next inning if they do. If Snider is a .300 hitter, and you think you have a better than 30% chance of getting the run - go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Yeah, it's nice to debate the wisdom of sending a runner with 2-3-4 coming up, but I think the jump the runner gets is more important. If he got a good one, let him go. If not, that's why the coach is there, to stop him.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:22 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/molina-cards-ko-d-by-pirates/article_fb47cd40-96a0-562d-ba51-e1442b1bfe5a.html

Points of interest:
Beltran refused to call Harrison's hit dirty but . . . he certainly suggests that Harrison should have slid.
One Cardinal hero who apparently didn't want his name used commented that Harrison would have been safe if he slid and that the collision was "not the play."

Gentlemen . . . watch the replay. If he slides, he's out. No path to the plate. None.

Also, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter asserts that Hurdle was upset because Westbrook wasn't warned after Harrison was hit by the pitch. Talk about not having a clue . . .

Molina's teammates were talking with their hearts, not their heads. When the catcher is straddling the foul line, the runner has no choice. If he slides, he's got a great chance of breaking a leg, but none at scoring.

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