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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:50 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:

You're defending a witless reactionary yinzer, is that your professional choice too?


This is not the first time that you've taken a "shot" at my chosen profession of being a lawyer. In the past, you've made critical overgeneralizing comments about "lawyer speak," "lawyer talk" and "that's what lawyers do." I've previously chosen not to directly respond but . . . . with all due respect, you can take those comments and shove them straight up your ass. While I am certainly aware of a number of stereotypes and overgeneralizations about those who choose to teach in professional schools as opposed to practicing in a particular field (i.e. law school, pharmacy school, med school, etc), of which I do not wholeheartedly subscribe, I choose to not resort to stereotype or ad hominem attacks. I'd respectfully request that, no matter how silly you find my particular position, let's keep the private life matters out of the discussion. The doctors for whom I've obtained defense verdicts in malpractice claims might take exception with respect to some of your characterizations.


Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument to fit your position, a skill highly valued in your profession. The lawyer training of several posters here often seems to lead to dissection of every damn sentence that gets written. That isn't common in other areas of discussion. It also leads to these long ass back and forths because its seems to be impossible for some to let things go.

My question in this thread was in regard to why you were so strongly defending a stupid comment, I thought perhaps its your nature due to being a defense attorney.

Well counselor, shall we continue to discuss how Alvarez sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:58 am 
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Re the Great Pedro Debate....setting aside the sophomoric potshots, both sides have made vaild points, IMHO. My biggest gripe with Pedro is his maddening inconsistency. He has amassed some decent stats in the aggregate, but it seems to me (I don't have time for detailed analysis) they tend to come in bunches - and when he's off, he's waaaay off. Certainly he wouldn't be the first nor the last "streaky" guy, and maybe more consistency will come in time. I recall Pops being pretty streaky earlier in his career, and becoming more consistent later. If Pedro becomes half the presence in the lineup that Pops was (ok, 3/4) I'll take it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:07 am 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Re the Great Pedro Debate....setting aside the sophomoric potshots, both sides have made vaild points, IMHO. My biggest gripe with Pedro is his maddening inconsistency. He has amassed some decent stats in the aggregate, but it seems to me (I don't have time for detailed analysis) they tend to come in bunches - and when he's off, he's waaaay off. Certainly he wouldn't be the first nor the last "streaky" guy, and maybe more consistency will come in time. I recall Pops being pretty streaky earlier in his career, and becoming more consistent later. If Pedro becomes half the presence in the lineup that Pops was (ok, 3/4) I'll take it.

I'm not aware of any player that produces consistent results from April to September. Even the great Derek Jeter has good months and bad months. If you criticize Pedro for being inconsistent, then you have to criticize all players for being inconsistent.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:16 am 
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Willton wrote:
Scrap Iron wrote:
Re the Great Pedro Debate....setting aside the sophomoric potshots, both sides have made vaild points, IMHO. My biggest gripe with Pedro is his maddening inconsistency. He has amassed some decent stats in the aggregate, but it seems to me (I don't have time for detailed analysis) they tend to come in bunches - and when he's off, he's waaaay off. Certainly he wouldn't be the first nor the last "streaky" guy, and maybe more consistency will come in time. I recall Pops being pretty streaky earlier in his career, and becoming more consistent later. If Pedro becomes half the presence in the lineup that Pops was (ok, 3/4) I'll take it.

I'm not aware of any player that produces consistent results from April to September. Even the great Derek Jeter has good months and bad months. If you criticize Pedro for being inconsistent, then you have to criticize all players for being inconsistent.

Just seems to me his "swings" are more pronounced at this point in his career.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:38 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument to fit your position, a skill highly valued in your profession. The lawyer training of several posters here often seems to lead to dissection of every damn sentence that gets written. That isn't common in other areas of discussion. It also leads to these long ass back and forths because its seems to be impossible for some to let things go.

My question in this thread was in regard to why you were so strongly defending a stupid comment, I thought perhaps its your nature due to being a defense attorney.

Well counselor, shall we continue to discuss how Alvarez sucks.


Yeah . . . terms such as "lawyer speak" are loaded with positive connotations. Give me a freaking break Barrys.

You work in academia. Last time I checked, those who work in academia engage in vigorous debate over other's research papers and the conclusions drawn from data collected.

I've explained in detail my feelings on Alvarez. I'm not sitting in an airport today so I'm going to get some actual client work done.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:40 am 
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val wrote:
And I am glad you chose today to have this argument. Maybe Pedro read the criticisms and faint praise here in this very thread, which started out with Bedard's release, got pissed and decided to make a statement.

We just needed this statement game two weeks ago.


I emailed .pdfs of my comments to a buddy of mine in the front office and told him to deliver them to Pedro. ;)

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:52 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument to fit your position, a skill highly valued in your profession. The lawyer training of several posters here often seems to lead to dissection of every damn sentence that gets written. That isn't common in other areas of discussion. It also leads to these long ass back and forths because its seems to be impossible for some to let things go.

My question in this thread was in regard to why you were so strongly defending a stupid comment, I thought perhaps its your nature due to being a defense attorney.

Well counselor, shall we continue to discuss how Alvarez sucks.


Yeah . . . terms such as "lawyer speak" are loaded with positive connotations. Give me a freaking break Barrys.

You work in academia. Last time I checked, those who work in academia engage in vigorous debate over other's research papers and the conclusions drawn from data collected.

I've explained in detail my feelings on Alvarez. I'm not sitting in an airport today so I'm going to get some actual client work done.


First, I will apologize for the "jackass" remark, over the line.

I respect your views on most topics that we argue over. I do not dislike lawyers, I do get annoyed by the way that discussions here start reading like litigation rather than a chat board. If I want every word I say dissected I'll talk to my wife ;)

Anyway, you'll be happy to know that fangraphs launched a brand new stat today RA9-wins which accounts for ball in play data and left on base ability (things incorporated into the new fielding dependent pitching (FDP)). Its described as such -

"because FIP only focuses on walks, strikeouts, and home runs, it does not include all aspects of run prevention. Specifically, it takes no stance on two aspects of the game that do have a significant impact on a pitcher’s total number of runs allowed – the results of batted balls that are not home runs and the effects of sequencing of the various events."

I think its a method to account for why some pitchers always outperform FIP and others do the opposite. To return to the topic on Bedard his FIP WAR was 1.4, but his FDP was -1.4, meanings his RA9 equal to 0 or replacement level which makes more sense considering his performance.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
i have no issue with correia. i don't with barmes either. barojas i cant stand. pedro needs to upgrade his skills in AAA.


Go back to Cleveland and cheer for the Browns.

Yeah, let's send Pedro and his 25 HR and 70 RBI back to Indy, so we can battle it out for 5th place.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:07 am 
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Animal wrote:
Clevelandsux wrote:
i have no issue with correia. i don't with barmes either. barojas i cant stand. pedro needs to upgrade his skills in AAA.


Go back to Cleveland and cheer for the Browns.

Yeah, let's send Pedro and his 25 HR and 70 RBI back to Indy, so we can battle it out for 5th place.


i guess this is the Pedro fan board. I'm happy that Pedro has been doing well. But you know he hasn't been playing up to par all year. He alwAYS hits the cardinals well. I'm a pirates fan. Not a fan of single player. I want the team to win. I call players out who are not playing up to there potential.

I know Pedro had the potential. Just wasn't living up to it. Neither were alot of the other guys. Wandy is another one. Two good outings in a row however. I call it like i see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:15 am 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
Animal wrote:
Clevelandsux wrote:
i have no issue with correia. i don't with barmes either. barojas i cant stand. pedro needs to upgrade his skills in AAA.


Go back to Cleveland and cheer for the Browns.

Yeah, let's send Pedro and his 25 HR and 70 RBI back to Indy, so we can battle it out for 5th place.


i guess this is the Pedro fan board. I'm happy that Pedro has been doing well. But you know he hasn't been playing up to par all year. He alwAYS hits the cardinals well. I'm a pirates fan. Not a fan of single player. I want the team to win. I call players out who are not playing up to there potential.

I know Pedro had the potential. Just wasn't living up to it. Neither were alot of the other guys. Wandy is another one. Two good outings in a row however. I call it like i see it.

Well, you clearly lack vision, because your perception does not match reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:04 am 
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Cutch and Burnett had carried this team all year. It was time for other guys to step up when they were slumping. Just what the doctor ordered. Pedro and wandy stepped up.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:09 am 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
Cutch and Burnett had carried this team all year. It was time for other guys to step up when they were slumping. Just what the doctor ordered. Pedro and wandy stepped up.


You got that right.

Thing is, AJ has slumped of late. So we need JMac to step it back up. Karstens to keep it going. Wandy to get it going.

But I have to disagree with you on one thing..while Cutch has carried the team from the beginning to now, there have been stretches where Pedro DOMINATED like no other, including Cutch. As he matures, hopefully he gets a little more consistent and does not disappear for so long of stretches. But make no mistake, Pedro CAN and HAS carried this team before.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:12 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument ...

Had a few cocktails before this post, Barrys?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:56 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument ...

Had a few cocktails before this post, Barrys?


Yeah always start my day off with few drinks. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Wow, a little sensitive eh? You applied the negative stereotype, my Dad is a lawyer jackass. I was referreing to your penchance to change the argument ...

Had a few cocktails before this post, Barrys?


Yeah always start my day off with few drinks. ;)

Paul Alexander, is that you? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Post game show had some interesting discussion about Pedro's OBP, whcih for the sabre guys is a big deal. He ranks 30th in this category. He has improved his patience a the plate. Let's hope it continues. 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Post game show had some interesting discussion about Pedro's OBP, whcih for the sabre guys is a big deal. He ranks 30th in this category. He has improved his patience a the plate. Let's hope it continues. 8-) 8-) 8-)

I'm not looking to open up that whole argument again, but his OBP is higher because pitchers absolutely pitch around him a lot of times. Even when he was in one of his cold spells there were a handful of pitchers that wouldn't give him anything to hit. Tells you how bad the bottom of that lineup is.

Maybe moving him to 5th and bat Walker 6th would get him more pitches to hit. When he is hot that would be a good thing, when he is cold not so much. Walker doesn't pose nearly as much of a HR threat as Pedro so he probably would still get some pitches to hit. Just a thought....


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
He has improved his patience a the plate.


Slowly, but surely... maybe (I think).

It's what I liked about his big AB last night. He got ahead in the count, then called time before smacking that mammoth shot.

We all know his K problems, as he's still K'ing 3 times for every 1 BB, but it just feels like he's a more patient hitter at times now.

The stats sort of back this up with his monthly BB(-vs. K) totals:
APR: 3-23
MAY: 10-33
JUN: 11-26
JUL: 9-29
AUG: 15-34

He's been getting closer to 2:1 as the season has progessed and his BB's are up nearly every month (he hiccuped in JUL).

I'm too lazy to look up/breakdown his AB's by count, but I'd be curious to see how many pitches he's taken this year/as the season went on and compared to prior years.

It might only be baby steps, but I think the young'un is developing more patience.

So maybe bigger hurdle at this point is pitch recognition? Because he does look fooled at times.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:44 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Post game show had some interesting discussion about Pedro's OBP, whcih for the sabre guys is a big deal. He ranks 30th in this category. He has improved his patience a the plate. Let's hope it continues. 8-) 8-) 8-)

I'm not looking to open up that whole argument again, but his OBP is higher because pitchers absolutely pitch around him a lot of times. Even when he was in one of his cold spells there were a handful of pitchers that wouldn't give him anything to hit. Tells you how bad the bottom of that lineup is.

Maybe moving him to 5th and bat Walker 6th would get him more pitches to hit. When he is hot that would be a good thing, when he is cold not so much. Walker doesn't pose nearly as much of a HR threat as Pedro so he probably would still get some pitches to hit. Just a thought....

Come on, Parrot, give credit where credit is due. Just because pitchers pitch around Pedro does not mean that his walks are less valuable or less impressive. Lesser hitters than he would be hacking away at those pitches off the plate. Pedro turns those plate appearances into something positive.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates release Bedard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:56 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
He has improved his patience a the plate.


Slowly, but surely... maybe (I think).

It's what I liked about his big AB last night. He got ahead in the count, then called time before smacking that mammoth shot.

We all know his K problems, as he's still K'ing 3 times for every 1 BB, but it just feels like he's a more patient hitter at times now.

The stats sort of back this up with his monthly BB(-vs. K) totals:
APR: 3-23
MAY: 10-33
JUN: 11-26
JUL: 9-29
AUG: 15-34

He's been getting closer to 2:1 as the season has progessed and his BB's are up nearly every month (he hiccuped in JUL).

I'm too lazy to look up/breakdown his AB's by count, but I'd be curious to see how many pitches he's taken this year/as the season went on and compared to prior years.

Pedro's Pitches/Plate Appearance:
2010: 3.87
2011: 4.03
2012: 3.91
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ches::none

NSMaster56 wrote:
So maybe bigger hurdle at this point is pitch recognition? Because he does look fooled at times.

See the link below. To summarize, his swinging tendencies do not appear to be much different from last year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... discipline

To me, the biggest difference between 2011 Pedro and 2012 Pedro is his power stroke and ability to get underneath the ball. 2011 Pedro hit a lot of balls into the ground. 2012 Pedro, not so much.

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