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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Unlikely but possible. Unless you have a crystal ball, you can't know that for sure.

I don't think it will happen. I don't see little LaRoche as a second baseman. But it is possible ...

I don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, either, but I know which way to bet, and I know that I can give extremely generous odds. I could say that Ian Snell will be converted into a slugging first baseman, but you wouldn't need a crystal ball to tell me what I'm full of.

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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:13 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, either, but I know which way to bet, and I know that I can give extremely generous odds. I could say that Ian Snell will be converted into a slugging first baseman, but you wouldn't need a crystal ball to tell me what I'm full of.


See my missive to Wilton on comparing pitchers becoming position players, to an infielder going from third to second. I will not cut and paste it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:02 pm 
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I find it more than unlikely that someone whose defense tended to vary from below average to GawdAwful at 3rd base would ever be able to successfully translate their skills to 2nd base, a position that generally requires more intensive footwork. I think its a shame, because I envision Laroche to be an OBP and doubles machine, which would profile wonderfully as a 2bman, probably closer to average as a 3bman.

BTW, I think that the same probably holds true for Negrych.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:11 pm 
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BBF wrote:
I find it more than unlikely that someone whose defense tended to vary from below average to GawdAwful at 3rd base would ever be able to successfully translate their skills to 2nd base, a position that generally requires more intensive footwork. I think its a shame, because I envision Laroche to be an OBP and doubles machine, which would profile wonderfully as a 2bman, probably closer to average as a 3bman.


Laroche does not have the arm that makes him ideal for third base. He has decent range for a third baseman, but not what you would look for at second base. As for footwork in turning the double play, that is something he would have to learn.

Jeff Kent moved from third to second so that the Blue Jays could take advantage of his bat. He has never been very good at second. If Laroche hits like it seems he is capable, he will play somewhere.

If Alvarez hits like he is projected and plays third, Laroche will play somewhere other than third. This does not even reference Neil Walker.

Do I think Laroche is the answer at second? No, since I have never seen him play there. But just dismissing the possibility seems premature, since the Buccos have some darn good third base prospects and are thin at second ... unless Shelby Ford can hit like he did last season in the minors.

Why doesn't somebody start a thread about Shelby Ford??


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:54 am 
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Bucfan wrote:

If Alvarez hits like he is projected and plays third, Laroche will play somewhere other than third. This does not even reference Neil Walker.



Or will play somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Honestly, I get the idea of wanting to try it out, just to keep all of your talent and get it all on the field. But we are basing this discussion on a whopping total of 8 games in the minors and 13 major league innings at 2nd base. Technically, it is possible that he switches to 2nd base, but I would say that is about as likely as Elmer and Econo holding hands and singing showtunes whilst skipping across the Clemente Bridge.

I think it is far more likely that Shelby Ford continues to hit like he did this year at Altoona and becomes our future 2bman. You are right, I wish someone would have started a thread about him.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:55 am 
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Argentum wrote:
Man, I don't know, I think Shelby Ford would have trouble hitting 15 HRs in the bigs, and that's letting him use an aluminum bat.


He won't be a home run threat, but he had 30-some extra base hits in about 80 games this year at AA. That is acceptable power from a 2bman, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:15 am 
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BBF wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Man, I don't know, I think Shelby Ford would have trouble hitting 15 HRs in the bigs, and that's letting him use an aluminum bat.


He won't be a home run threat, but he had 30-some extra base hits in about 80 games this year at AA. That is acceptable power from a 2bman, IMO.


10 triples at any level is pretty impressive. I worry about his batting eye though. His BB/K ratio isn't really what you want to see from a guy who will be counted on to get on base at the top of the order. He's going to need to get more selective if he is going to be anything more than bench filler. My opinion of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:15 pm 
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He is hitting .345 in the AFL so far. A good sign.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
He is hitting .345 in the AFL so far. A good sign.


7 walks and only 2 ks! Very small sample size though. But I do agree that it's a good sign.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:36 am 
I don't understand why some fans get concerned about having "too many" third basemen.

First off, keep in mind that the Pirates have exactly ZERO proven third basemen at this point, so talking about what to do with the excess is silly right now.

But the Pirates do have 3 third basemen with great potential, which is a great situation to be in. The chances of ALL THREE living up to that potential is slim, but you'd like to think that AT LEAST one of the three emerges as a big-time player.

Having 3 potential third basemen is is not a problem. This is a great situation to be in. IF all three develop, then you move one to another position or trade one or have one hell of a bat on your bench. There is no downside to having "too many" players at a position.

The Pirates have multiple options at the position, which is what you NEED, in my opinion. Multiple options mean there's competition, which makes all three even better. Multiple options means you're not screwed of one guy gets hurt or one guy falls flat on his face.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:44 am 
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Elmer wrote:
I don't understand why some fans get concerned about having "too many" third basemen.



I'm not sure who you are referring to as being concerned about having too many third basemen. The sentiment in this thread seems to be that we have no second basemen, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:49 am 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I don't understand why some fans get concerned about having "too many" third basemen.



I'm not sure who you are referring to as being concerned about having too many third basemen. The sentiment in this thread seems to be that we have no second basemen, no?


Not talking about this thread specifically, but I've read posts here, elsewhere, radio callers etc. Just a pet peave I guess.

I'd love to have the same "problem" at second that we have at third.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:56 am 
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No, youi've got a nice 2nd, an All Star if he can stay healthy.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:58 am 
ZelieMike wrote:
No, youi've got a nice 2nd, an All Star if he can stay healthy.

ZM


But he's your only option. That's the problem. If he doesn't stay healthy, you have no one.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:15 pm 
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And, so we are back to the title of this thread.

I would also point out a few options that no one has brought up. NH drafted a number of SS this year. Now, not all are MLB caliber SS, but a number are considered athletic enough to become 3B or 2b. There are also a couple of lower draft pick 3b that performed wellk, Hague being one of them.

You won't know what you have for depth at 2b for a bit yet.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
No, youi've got a nice 2nd, an All Star if he can stay healthy.

ZM


But he's your only option. That's the problem. If he doesn't stay healthy, you have no one.

Holy s***, Elmer and I agree.

Yes, Sanchez is nice if he can stay healthy. However, 2B is not the safest position on the diamond, Sanchez is injury prone, his value is wholly wrapped up in his batting average, and he's on the wrong side of 30. We saw Sanchez decline last year, and that should be alarming enough.

I see little reason to not be concerned about 2nd base. We need an option to replace Sanchez, and there's little on the farm to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:51 pm 
Willton wrote:
Holy s***, Elmer and I agree.


Now we need to hug.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:39 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordy Mercer end up moving there, based just on the scouting reports I've read.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:12 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I would also point out a few options that no one has brought up. NH drafted a number of SS this year. Now, not all are MLB caliber SS, but a number are considered athletic enough to become 3B or 2b. There are also a couple of lower draft pick 3b that performed wellk, Hague being one of them.


ZM


ZM-

I'm going off of what I remember from June, which is admittedly not much, but I believe the questions with both Mercer and D'Arnaud were with their bats, not whether they could stick at SS. If they can't hit, they won't be playing at either position in the big leagues.

As for Hague, he did hit very well, but I believe he is another one with questionable defense, which makes a move to 2nd unlikely.

But, you are right in the sense that *IF* a few guys do pan out, we have options...in a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Shelby Ford
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, either, but I know which way to bet, and I know that I can give extremely generous odds. I could say that Ian Snell will be converted into a slugging first baseman, but you wouldn't need a crystal ball to tell me what I'm full of.


See my missive to Wilton on comparing pitchers becoming position players, to an infielder going from third to second. I will not cut and paste it here.

I saw it. So substitute any third baseman for Snell. The point is the same. It ain't going to happen. It is rare for any third baseman to successfully convert to second.

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