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 Post subject: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Anyone have a subscription? I have a question.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:11 pm 
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I do. What's your query?

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:01 pm 
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Actually, you might be able to answer the question, but there is an article from 2006 about this. Is Alvarez eligible for a fourth option year? There is an exception, but a guy I know says it doesn't apply because he has a major league contract which makes no sense because it would never really apply to someone with a minor league contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:06 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Actually, you might be able to answer the question, but there is an article from 2006 about this. Is Alvarez eligible for a fourth option year? There is an exception, but a guy I know says it doesn't apply because he has a major league contract which makes no sense because it would never really apply to someone with a minor league contract.


I believe that I answered this in another thread:

As I understand the option rule, a player on the 40-man roster can be brought to the majors only via option without exposing him to other teams through waivers. Therefore, the major league contract essentially requires the team to have the player in the majors before the end of the third (or fourth - see below) season, since a player has only three "option years."

"When a player is added to the 40-man roster, his club has three “options,” or three separate seasons during which the club may to move him to and from the minor leagues without exposing him to other clubs. A player on the 40-man roster playing in the minors is on optional assignment, and within an option season, there is no limit on the number of times a club may demote and recall a player. However, a player optioned to the minor leagues may not be recalled for at least 10 days, unless the club places a Major League player on the disabled list during the 10-day window.

After three options [meaning, option years] are exhausted, the player is out of options. Beginning with the next season, he must clear waivers before he may be sent to the minors again. Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent."

However, Alvarez would be eligible for a fourth "option year" since he did not play at all this year:

"A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. ... The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."

http://tinyurl.com/4w8pem


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:15 pm 
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I swear to God, that MLB takes lessons from the Vatican on how to make rules!

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Actually, you might be able to answer the question, but there is an article from 2006 about this. Is Alvarez eligible for a fourth option year? There is an exception, but a guy I know says it doesn't apply because he has a major league contract which makes no sense because it would never really apply to someone with a minor league contract.


I believe that I answered this in another thread:

As I understand the option rule, a player on the 40-man roster can be brought to the majors only via option without exposing him to other teams through waivers. Therefore, the major league contract essentially requires the team to have the player in the majors before the end of the third (or fourth - see below) season, since a player has only three "option years."

"When a player is added to the 40-man roster, his club has three “options,” or three separate seasons during which the club may to move him to and from the minor leagues without exposing him to other clubs. A player on the 40-man roster playing in the minors is on optional assignment, and within an option season, there is no limit on the number of times a club may demote and recall a player. However, a player optioned to the minor leagues may not be recalled for at least 10 days, unless the club places a Major League player on the disabled list during the 10-day window.

After three options [meaning, option years] are exhausted, the player is out of options. Beginning with the next season, he must clear waivers before he may be sent to the minors again. Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent."

However, Alvarez would be eligible for a fourth "option year" since he did not play at all this year:

"A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. ... The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."

http://tinyurl.com/4w8pem


That's what I thought. But I have a guy telling me that's not the case for Alvarez because he signed a major league contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:38 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
That's what I thought. But I have a guy telling me that's not the case for Alvarez because he signed a major league contract.


The guy is wrong. Option years are triggered when a player is on the 40-man roster. Signing a "major league contract" means only that the player is then immediately put on the 40-man roster and the option years begin.

Thus, next season will be the first option year for Alvarez. As I read the rule, the Pirates will have until the end of the 2012 season (4th full year after he is first put on the 40-man roster) to call up Alvarez through option and not expose him to waivers.

If Pedro is not playing for the Buccos by September of 2012, something is horribly wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:57 pm 
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That's what I said, but he is saying it is wrong. Has anyone seen comments about Alvarez's status specifically? Maybe someone can drop DK a line.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:15 pm 
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While I understand that you feel the need to get the official rule from the book, there is no reason to doubt the accuracy of Bucfan. He has shown his expertise on many issues on this board. I hope he takes no offense in your need for your friend who knows not our Bucfan.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:29 pm 
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That's why I am arguing it because I think the guy is wrong. I just have no way of showing him he is wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:09 pm 
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Sure you do. Dunk him in a pool of water, if he floats he is a witch. If not, the rule stands.

Its really simple when you think about it.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:56 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Sure you do. Dunk him in a pool of water, if he floats he is a witch. If not, the rule stands.

Its really simple when you think about it.

ZM

Oh, trial by ordeal, is there nothing you can't solve? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:18 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Sure you do. Dunk him in a pool of water, if he floats he is a witch. If not, the rule stands.

Its really simple when you think about it.

ZM


Very good analysis, ZM.

How exactly would you achieve this level of wisdom, unless you are in fact ... A WITCH!!

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 Post subject: Re: Baseball Prospectus
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:33 pm 
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LOL. I've always enjoyed the brevity on this board.

ZM

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