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 Post subject: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:38 am 
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DK has reported that the Pirates CAN spend over $54 mil next year, and with arbitration raises, etc. we are at about $40 mil. Being conservative, let's cap the payroll at $55 mil.

Now, you are the GM. What do you spend it on? Feel free to trade Jack to give yourself an extra $7 mil to work with, but say who will be taking over at SS in his absence.

I'm interested to hear how people would spend $15-22 mil this offseason.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:10 am 
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I'd say put some money aside so that we can be aggressive in the draft again. Take the best player possible when our turn rolls around again, as well as be aggressive in later rounds.

Maybe take a look at Oliver Perez, if Peterson is hired as PC, he had success with Ollie in the past. Ollie will probably command between 10-15 Million(overpriced but still young).


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:20 am 
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Trade Jack and Freddy. Also trade Snell to the Yanks in a deal that brings back Robinson Cano. Then use your money to go sign Orlando Cabrera (a proven winner!) or a Rafeal Furcal. Then try to get a good pitcher in free agency with the rest (Lowe, Burnett, Sheets).

It makes up for the loss of Snell with the pitcher signing.

Cano is younger, less expensive (i think?), and overall a better player then Freddy IMO.

Cabrera is just a proven winner and does what it takes. I think I would go after Furcal harder as he is the superior player and could be cheaper thanks to his injury this season.

Never will happen but Id love to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:42 am 
Piratefan13 wrote:
I'd say put some money aside so that we can be aggressive in the draft again.


I'm guessing that is budgeted separately. I think this $55 million is for current player salaries ... correct me if I'm wrong, BBF.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:47 am 
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jni123 wrote:
Trade Jack and Freddy. Also trade Snell to the Yanks in a deal that brings back Robinson Cano. Then use your money to go sign Orlando Cabrera (a proven winner!) or a Rafeal Furcal. Then try to get a good pitcher in free agency with the rest (Lowe, Burnett, Sheets).

It makes up for the loss of Snell with the pitcher signing.

Cano is younger, less expensive (i think?), and overall a better player then Freddy IMO.

Cabrera is just a proven winner and does what it takes. I think I would go after Furcal harder as he is the superior player and could be cheaper thanks to his injury this season.

Never will happen but Id love to see it.


So you would let Snell who is locked up for another 3 years at a nice price go, and bring in Sheets(who will be between 15-20 Million), who is much older and injury prone. Sure I'd like to have Sheets too, but not at the expense of our youth. If snell can get it together he could possibly be better than Sheets, I'd really hate to see that happen on another team.

Furcal is commanding a 13M in salary, at 30 years old he is going to want a 3-4 year deal, I can't see shelling out that kind of cash for another injury prone player.

Cabrera is also older at 33, he will be commanding above 10M in salary as well.

There is nothing wrong with Freddy at 2B for now, and I'd see what kind of talent can be had for Wilson. If nothing of value will come back, then run Jack back out there for another year until we get some clarity on our SS position.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:50 am 
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Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I'd say put some money aside so that we can be aggressive in the draft again.


I'm guessing that is budgeted separately. I think this $55 million is for current player salaries ... correct me if I'm wrong, BBF.


That is my understanding as well. But its a fair point to want to take some of your current player salary budget and invest it in other ways. My impression is that we already have money set aside to continue to be aggressive in the draft, but there is no limit to what you can invest in acquiring amateur talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:52 am 
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Especially in the Dominican Rep.

The Pirates obviously can't compete against the Yankees and Red Sox for FA's, but we can sure take that money and be real aggressive in the international market.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:34 pm 
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I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:45 pm 
Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


He sure did have a terrible year in 08. I'm wouldn't trade him because his value is very low right now. I'm thinking it's possible he'll have a rebound year next year (if his shoulder is healthy) and be at least solid. That said, I certainly hope they get someone else to be another option.

NH has been good and getting enough players to have multiple options at most positions. I hope he continues this. I think having multiple options at EVERY position is optimal. Competition does amazing things.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:47 pm 
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Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


Wilton? I'm suprised at you! Talk about a no-hit SS... Adam Everett? Is your hatred of Jack Wilson that deep? That statistical analysis that has been argued about how Jack's "lack of offense" effects the team? Where is that? Sure Adam Everett is good defensively and maybe cheaper, but talk about not hitting. Is Jack Wilson's salary a problem? The PBC doesn't think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:49 pm 
Piratefan13 wrote:
Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


Wilton? I'm suprised at you! Talk about a no-hit SS... Adam Everett? Is your hatred of Jack Wilson that deep? That statistical analysis that has been argued about how Jack's "lack of offense" effects the team? Where is that? Sure Adam Everett is good defensively and maybe cheaper, but talk about not hitting. Is Jack Wilson's salary a problem? The PBC doesn't think so.


I have no problem trading Wilson so long as you can UPGRADE at the position.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


He sure did have a terrible year in 08. I'm wouldn't trade him because his value is very low right now. I'm thinking it's possible he'll have a rebound year next year (if his shoulder is healthy) and be at least solid. That said, I certainly hope they get someone else to be another option.

NH has been good and getting enough players to have multiple options at most positions. I hope he continues this. I think having multiple options at EVERY position is optimal. Competition does amazing things.


He sure did have a terrible first half, with shoulder problems and vision problems. Once that was corrected, he promptly hit .288 in July, .318 in August, and .354 in September. Not to mention the fact that he committed only 7 errors all season. Doesn't sound too bad to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Quote:
I'd say put some money aside so that we can be aggressive in the draft again. Take the best player possible when our turn rolls around again, as well as be aggressive in later rounds.



This.


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


Wilton? I'm suprised at you! Talk about a no-hit SS... Adam Everett? Is your hatred of Jack Wilson that deep? That statistical analysis that has been argued about how Jack's "lack of offense" effects the team? Where is that? Sure Adam Everett is good defensively and maybe cheaper, but talk about not hitting. Is Jack Wilson's salary a problem? The PBC doesn't think so.


I have no problem trading Wilson so long as you can UPGRADE at the position.

I wouldn't be that specific. Trading Wilson should upgrade the team, not necessarily the position.

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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:19 pm 
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The best thing we can do to replace Jack long term is most likely done by drafting Grant Green come June...If he makes it to pick 4


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:45 pm 
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Sheesh. Why does everyone always want to trade Jack? We've already lost all our best players, and one of the reasons given is that they will become Free Agents. So what - pay them the goddam money. Prospects - schmospects!

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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:46 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Willton wrote:
I'd like to see Jack traded and Adam Everett signed and put in his place. The guy can't hit, but he has a tremendous glove, and that will come cheap. Then I'd go after Russ Branyan as a backup corner IF/OF. After that, I'm not sure.

I don't see trading Freddy as feasible. He's a declining 2nd baseman on the wrong side of 30 who's value is entirely wrapped up in his batting average, and that is surely to go down as he gets older. He also had an undeniably terrible year in 2008, and that is going to turn off potential suitors. I'd love to see him traded, but I don't think it will happen.


Wilton? I'm suprised at you! Talk about a no-hit SS... Adam Everett? Is your hatred of Jack Wilson that deep? That statistical analysis that has been argued about how Jack's "lack of offense" effects the team? Where is that? Sure Adam Everett is good defensively and maybe cheaper, but talk about not hitting. Is Jack Wilson's salary a problem? The PBC doesn't think so.


Adam Everett is better than Bixler and Cruz right now...If Jack is traded its going to be for a prospect...which will benefit the team...right now you need someone to fill in at SS and play defense just as good as Jack...

What other SS's are out there for a short term rental? What SS's are out there you are willing to sign longterm and make him your cornerstone of your team for the next few years?

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:54 pm 
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I would not acquire Cano at all unless it was for VanBenschoten...

Cano's stats have gone south the last 2 seasons....

His on base percentage dropped almost 50 points from 2007, 60 from 2006

His slugging has dropped 78 points from 2007, 115 points from 2006

His average dropped 35 points from 2007

There's something that scares me about him dropping in production like that...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:58 pm 
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I am totally shocked that you guys didn't come up with the best way to spend $22 million.

It's a no-brainer. We go for double or triple the amount by investing in Wall Street. Who knows we may strike it rich and buy anyone we want at any price.
And if we don't-- not to worry the government will give us back our 22 big ones so that we will be ok.

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 Post subject: Re: Just for Laughs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
I am totally shocked that you guys didn't come up with the best way to spend $22 million.

It's a no-brainer. We go for double or triple the amount by investing in Wall Street. Who knows we may strike it rich and buy anyone we want at any price.
And if we don't-- not to worry the government will give us back our 22 big ones so that we will be ok.


I wonder if the government could step in and help bail us out from the money we've given to Matt Morris, Pat Meares, Jason Kendall, Kevin Young, Jeremy Burnitz, Joe Randa, Chris Stynes, etc?....We'd have enough to make a big splash in the free agent market...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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