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 Post subject: Re: Lanny Frattare Retires
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:00 am 
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Elmer wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
/What qualifies as a good representation?


For whatever reason, there is a greater concentration of pro-management types and optimists on this board than there seems to be among the population at large. quote]


Wow you can say that again. I came to this board because my friends who can hold a conversation about the Steelers and Penguins for hours on end can't even name 3 Pirates. Coming to this board I thought I was in an alternate reality Pittsburgh where you would've thought we'd have had a winning ballclub. I suppose you can find some good baseball talk if you can get around the snobbish attitudes of some posters who don't tolerate disparaging remarks about the new regime. Interesting conversation nevertheless.

Topic on hand, although I grew up listening to Lanny and liked him a lot in my younger years around the time the Pirates were winning the division titles and he did the broadcasts on KBL, I found him to be pretty bland as I got older. Everytime I think of Lanny these days I picture the Pittsburgh Pirates the Movie Cast article on Mondesi's house where Lanny's role is played by Ned Flanders. With the exception of Walkie, I don't think any of the Pirates announcers are anything spectacular, I do find Greg Brown to be competetant and slightly better to listen to than Frattare. JMO.

Maybe we're just spoiled having announcers like Hillgrove, Tunch and Lange in town that it's easy to notice the mediocrity of the Pirates broadcast team.

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 Post subject: Re: Lanny Frattare Retires
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:46 am 
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Kingston wrote:
I see my position as being Pro Patience, and its based on a new organizational philosophy that seems reasonable enough and successful enough elsewhere.

I tend to agree. This team is not going to turn into a winner overnight, and I'd argue that attempting to do so will actually do more harm than good.

I'm sorry to analogize things into boring law topics, but think of these times as a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy reorganization - we've got a lot of bad deals on our team's shoulders, and we need time rectify those wrongs as we build a better (read: winning) business model.

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 Post subject: Re: Lanny Frattare Retires
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:23 am 
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I would agree with Kingston, Wilton, and nad69dan. I am not an apologist, I am an optimist and thats different. Since I choose not to dwell on the past and be optimistic towards the future than I'm an apologist? As I am reading about board "balance" and all other kinds of BS, here are a few points of interest for me;

1. I've said it here before and I will repeat it: Having a team here in Pittsburgh that is struggling to be a contender is better than NOT having a team at all. Some of you forget that the Pirates were getting better offers from other cities.

2. ANYONE who thinks that the mistakes made by previous management can be rectified in 1 year or maybe 2 or 3 is a fool. This turnaround is going to take time. Come talk to me in 3 years and if we are in no better shape(organizationally) then you'll see just what kind angry Pirate fan I can be.

3. Who cares about Lanny or whether he was forced out or he quit. He's gone, thanks for your time. Things change people, out with the old, in with the new. Maybe we tried to trade Lanny for 2 broadcast prospects and it fell through so we released him, oh no!! The famed salary dump.

4. I definitely get pissed when I see Sabathia go to the Yankees, or the Redsox possibly signing Teixiera, but some of you guys are under the assumption that these players would actually come to Pittsburgh if we offered the same money that the Yankees would. Again, you are kidding yourselves. Superstar FA's go to teams that can win the Pennant, not to rebuilding teams. The Pirates must first show that they can win with talent from within the organization, then FA's will notice, and Nutting will shell out the cash as he promised. Many of you guys are putting the cart before the horse. Buying a bunch of FA's is not the answer, see the Orioles who have the cash to pay for whoever they want, but it never really matters, because they still suck every year.

5. So we aren't a "cross-section" of the Pirates fan base? How do you know? Exactly what is that? What would you think if 3/4 of all Pirates fans actually are optimistic about management and about the direction of the team. Since some of you guys may be in the minority, then you believe that there isn't a good balance of opinion? I think that is an arrogant mindset. This board is the best out there, I've tried others and I got sick of all the slang talk and absolute ridiculous multi-player deal ideas. I want a board where the posters are intelligent and articulate their thoughts and actually have baseball sense.

6. I don't know what to tell you guys, all this whining BS is bringing me down, the season didn't even start yet for crying out loud. If you are a fan of the Pirates, then suck it up, give these guys a chance for at least 2 more years. I'm not saying to approve of every single move, but overall, give them the benefit of doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Lanny Frattare Retires
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:52 pm 
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I might as well let everyone toss me into camp on my first post and get it out of the way . . . :D

I think the whole broadbrush criticism of folks as apologists because they are cutting FC and NH some slack to be a bit of a reach. In the end they're working at a job, so I think that they deserve expectations and allowances we get and allow on a new job. I have a decent size group of people who work for me. And in that group, believe me . . . I've had some duds. When those folks are dismissed or leave, the people I hire to replace them don't start out automatically having their work questioned and people stating that they have to prove something first because the person before them didn't know what they were doing. Not in any good organization that I've ever been associated with. They start with the benefit of the doubt, and you know that they won't be 100 percent perfect. And even if you take a BH position and assume the devil himself is in charge, how's that automatically tie to everyone new? I'm sure that over the years somebody somewhere has decided I'm an idiot, fool, or have some self-serving motivation in my job. Independent of whether or not that claim is true, how does it mean that I might not have hired someone bright enough to save me and my organization in spite of myself.

It's just way too easy to only support a winner and criticize a loser. Talk about picking low-hanging fruit . . .

On the actual topic of the thread - - yes, Lanny is a homer and all that, but I'd be hard-pressed to say he wasn't at least in the middle of the pack of play-by-play men from all that I've heard over the years. It always could be worse, and IMO Brown pretty much proves that. I find him to be very painful to listen to.

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 Post subject: Re: Lanny Frattare Retires
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Midnight wrote:
I might as well let everyone toss me into camp on my first post and get it out of the way . . . :D

I think the whole broadbrush criticism of folks as apologists because they are cutting FC and NH some slack to be a bit of a reach. In the end they're working at a job, so I think that they deserve expectations and allowances we get and allow on a new job. I have a decent size group of people who work for me. And in that group, believe me . . . I've had some duds. When those folks are dismissed or leave, the people I hire to replace them don't start out automatically having their work questioned and people stating that they have to prove something first because the person before them didn't know what they were doing. Not in any good organization that I've ever been associated with. They start with the benefit of the doubt, and you know that they won't be 100 percent perfect. And even if you take a BH position and assume the devil himself is in charge, how's that automatically tie to everyone new? I'm sure that over the years somebody somewhere has decided I'm an idiot, fool, or have some self-serving motivation in my job. Independent of whether or not that claim is true, how does it mean that I might not have hired someone bright enough to save me and my organization in spite of myself.

It's just way too easy to only support a winner and criticize a loser. Talk about picking low-hanging fruit . . .

On the actual topic of the thread - - yes, Lanny is a homer and all that, but I'd be hard-pressed to say he wasn't at least in the middle of the pack of play-by-play men from all that I've heard over the years. It always could be worse, and IMO Brown pretty much proves that. I find him to be very painful to listen to.


Welcome to the board Midnight...

As for Lanny, when I lived in Montana and could only get the games on Sattelite Radio, they only gave feed to the home team's games so 1/2 the time I had to hear the announcers for their opponents...We should feel lucky to have Lanny, Steve, Greg, Walk, and even Wehner in the booth...There are some shitty announcers out there broadcasting games...

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