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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.



I don't want to go back that far.....but look at the deal that was done. Did the Bucs really have to throw in Lillibridge?

I think that is one of the worst trades of last 5 years for the Bucs. A solid closer plus a top SS prospect for a first baseman who really hasn't improved the team and an outfielder who's still in AA.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.



I don't want to go back that far.....but look at the deal that was done. Did the Bucs really have to throw in Lillibridge?

I think that is one of the worst trades of last 5 years for the Bucs. A solid closer plus a top SS prospect for a first baseman who really hasn't improved the team and an outfielder who's still in AA.

Hardly. Lillibridge has regressed considerably since he was traded (last seen hitting .220/.294/.344 for AAA Richmond), and Gonzalez has yet to pitch a full season for the Braves. Those two for an average firstbaseman in Adam LaRoche and a 22-year-old outfield prospect who has shown tremendous power potential, albeit only in high A ball. I'd say that the Pirates clearly won that trade. It's one of the rare Littlefield moves that actually helped the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:23 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.

Perhaps there's no use crying over it, but there is tremendous use in learning from our mistakes.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:52 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.

Perhaps there's no use crying over it, but there is tremendous use in learning from our mistakes.


I agree. Hopefully we learned never to let Dave Littlefield in the city limits ever again. Something bad may happen.

Jurrjens would have been the ace of the staff. Period. And that includes Maholm. And he is young. It may have made it more interesting at the trade deadline too. With him in the rotation they may have had 7-10 more wins at the time. Would have made a MUCH tougher decision for the GM.

And this IS one move I cry over. I still can't believe we turned down a 22 year old top pitching prospect who was already at the MLB level! Ugh....


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Yeah, this Jeremy guy is kind of a putz. I can't disagree with that. He called me an idiot or something for wanting to trade a bunch of guys but now he wants to "blow it up". But that would involve trading guys right? Maybe I'm wrong about the guy. I rarely click on his posts so I am not absolutely sure of the context of his "Blow it up" post.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:48 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Better off with Jurjens this year? Based on what we saw without Jack. No way.

He might be a good pitcher, but his pitchiness would not be enough to override the uglyness that was "no Jack" at SS.

ZM

Keep in mind that Rivas and Bixler would not have been the shortstops if Jack had been traded. Izturis or some other acquisition would have been at short.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:51 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.

We'd be worse off, as Lillibridge has been a major disappointment.

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"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Go back ever further and say they don't trade away Lillibridge. Where are we at then.



We can do this all day... Maybe we should have gave Barry "US Savings" Bonds the dough he wanted.

Again, hindsight is 20/20. Those deals and many other deals could or couldn't have changed our direction, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.



I don't want to go back that far.....but look at the deal that was done. Did the Bucs really have to throw in Lillibridge?

I think that is one of the worst trades of last 5 years for the Bucs. A solid closer plus a top SS prospect for a first baseman who really hasn't improved the team and an outfielder who's still in AA.

I was one of a few guys here who hated that trade, but I've got to admit that I was wrong. The Pirates definitely came out ahead so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:56 pm 
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This whole game is a crapshoot boys. Like trading penny stocks. Some trades work, some don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
This whole game is a crapshoot boys. Like trading penny stocks. Some trades work, some don't.

If you really believed that, then you'd be okay with bringing Littlefield back.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:59 pm 
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I don't think I ever said that now did I.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I don't think I ever said that now did I.

If it's all a crapshoot, what does it matter who the GM is?

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Player development is a crapshoot. Injuries, confidence, handling all effect it. Having the right people in charge is a positive but it's all about players getting better.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Player development is a crapshoot. Injuries, confidence, handling all effect it. Having the right people in charge is a positive but it's all about players getting better.

That is definitely true, especially for pitchers, but the root of all success for a player is talent, and the root of all success for a GM is evaluating and acquiring talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:15 pm 
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It's true for all players, pitchers and position players and it's more than the GM, it is the GM and the people he has working for him especially the scouting department.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:38 pm 
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So JimY can attack me but I can't defend myself?

Good call mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
So JimY can attack me but I can't defend myself?

Good call mods.


Here's a little secret...starting your post with "Hey asshole..." is a good way to get it deleted. Call it a rule of thumb, if you will. And I would hardly call what was posted "defending yourself".


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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:59 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
So JimY can attack me but I can't defend myself?

Good call mods.


Here's a little secret...starting your post with "Hey asshole..." is a good way to get it deleted. Call it a rule of thumb, if you will. And I would hardly call what was posted "defending yourself".


It looks like someone might be getting on BBF's "Shit List"


Attachments:
shit_list[1].JPG
shit_list[1].JPG [ 93.16 KiB | Viewed 129 times ]

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...
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 Post subject: Re: Revisiting Old Issues: Jair Jurrjens and Jack Wilson
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:11 am 
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I don't think I actually attacked you, JerJer. I said that you called me an idiot because I wanted to trade Jack, Doumit, and Nate, and now you want to "blow it up" which would include trading peeps. Again, I may be wrong about the specifics because I don't read your posts. And I did call you a putz, but c'mon you call people names regularly. Honestly you act like a 13 year old internet message board troll. Sorry, am I hitting close to home?
Try not to use any "naughty words" when you respond this time so I can actually read it.

I love a good flame war. Fun times.


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