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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
I don't want to trade him for Cano either, but I still want to trade him. He's far more valuable in trade than he is on the roster. He's not going to get any better, so strike when the iron is hot.

So who should they target in return for McLouth?

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:05 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
I don't want to trade him for Cano either, but I still want to trade him. He's far more valuable in trade than he is on the roster. He's not going to get any better, so strike when the iron is hot.

So who should they target in return for McLouth?



Names? That's putting me on the spot.


I don't have anyone particular in mind right now. I know Pittsburgh needs help at both short and second. Jack Wilson is a great glove man, but his offense just isn't getting it done. Andy LaRoche might be an answer at second base, but only if Pedro lives up to the hype in the minors.

Pitching is an obvious and glaring area of need. Starting pitching and relief pitching. Of the group of starters we have now, maybe two of them are worth keeping. The rest need to sent to the 'pen or cut loose.

Someone out there is going to want McClouth and will be willing to give up either a couple of good major league ready pitchers or at least a pitcher and infielder.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:55 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
I don't want to trade him for Cano either, but I still want to trade him. He's far more valuable in trade than he is on the roster. He's not going to get any better, so strike when the iron is hot.

So who should they target in return for McLouth?



Names? That's putting me on the spot.


I don't have anyone particular in mind right now. I know Pittsburgh needs help at both short and second. Jack Wilson is a great glove man, but his offense just isn't getting it done. Andy LaRoche might be an answer at second base, but only if Pedro lives up to the hype in the minors.

Pitching is an obvious and glaring area of need. Starting pitching and relief pitching. Of the group of starters we have now, maybe two of them are worth keeping. The rest need to sent to the 'pen or cut loose.

Someone out there is going to want McClouth and will be willing to give up either a couple of good major league ready pitchers or at least a pitcher and infielder.


Hmmm... maybe McLouth for AROD, Jeter, and Matsui? Sounds about as ridiculous as this discussion.

1. McLouth is going to win a Gold Glove. Thats pretty good.
2. His defensive ability, speed, and slugging percentage will fit very nicely into LF
3. Why do you want to trade him Jeremy? Then you'll be the first to complain that we trade away all our good players.
4. A 2B that hits 30HR? Maybe we should fill out the infield with a SS who hits 40, a 3B who hits 50... and so on.
5. Sanchez is ranked 2nd in least amount of errors at 2B in the National League, and will hit much better next year.
6. The Yankees media always starts rumours like this because they think they are entitled to other teams best players, what a joke.

Next years lineup could be like this.
CF - A. McCutchen
2B - F. Sanchez
LF - N. McLouth
C - R. Doumit
1B - Ad. LaRoche
RF - B. Moss
3B - An. LaRoche
SS - Cruz, Wilson, or Bixler

I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:32 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


I guess you're counting on Wonder Boy to be the staff ace by then too huh.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:09 pm 
Piratefan13 wrote:
I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?

It's not throwing in the towel. It's being realistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:32 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?

It's not throwing in the towel. It's being realistic.


The irony of that statement from you just jumped out of the screen.

Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:43 pm 
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Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?


The irony of that statement from you just jumped out of the screen.

Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?[/quote]

Elmer, I respect you and your arguments, but your not getting the point at all here.

Sure the Pirates are going to try and win next season, but what they are NOT going to do is panic and feel like they have to "buy" players to have a winning season. If we are going to win, its going to be from within. So here's to our young players stepping up next season and taking us to a new level. Who knows, if they are in position at the deadline, NH will make a move to put us over the top. But I am a realist, some of the players are still developing, some of are players had major setbacks this season, they will have to prove that they are worthy of remaining MLB players.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Quote:
Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?


Quote:
Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?


Elmer, I respect you and your arguments, but your not getting the point at all here.

Sure the Pirates are going to try and win next season, but what they are NOT going to do is panic and feel like they have to "buy" players to have a winning season. If we are going to win, its going to be from within. So here's to our young players stepping up next season and taking us to a new level. Who knows, if they are in position at the deadline, NH will make a move to put us over the top. But I am a realist, some of the players are still developing, some of are players had major setbacks this season, they will have to prove that they are worthy of remaining MLB players.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:06 pm 
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?


Quote:
Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?


Elmer, I respect you and your arguments, but your not getting the point at all here.

Sure the Pirates are going to try and win next season, but what they are NOT going to do is panic and feel like they have to "buy" players to have a winning season. If we are going to win, its going to be from within. So here's to our young players stepping up next season and taking us to a new level. Who knows, if they are in position at the deadline, NH will make a move to put us over the top. But I am a realist, some of the players are still developing, some of are players had major setbacks this season, they will have to prove that they are worthy of remaining MLB players.


I'd agree that they shouldn't panic next year and just buy players a la Burnitz and Randa. But if there's a free agent deal that makes sense (especially a deal that will help them win in 2009, 2010 and 2011) I hope they go for it.

I view it like this - I think 2010 is their BEST CHANCE to win, but I think winning is POSSIBLE any year. I hope they keep that in mind when evaluating potential players this offeason.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?


Quote:
Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?


Elmer, I respect you and your arguments, but your not getting the point at all here.

Sure the Pirates are going to try and win next season, but what they are NOT going to do is panic and feel like they have to "buy" players to have a winning season. If we are going to win, its going to be from within. So here's to our young players stepping up next season and taking us to a new level. Who knows, if they are in position at the deadline, NH will make a move to put us over the top. But I am a realist, some of the players are still developing, some of are players had major setbacks this season, they will have to prove that they are worthy of remaining MLB players.


I'd agree that they shouldn't panic next year and just buy players a la Burnitz and Randa. But if there's a free agent deal that makes sense (especially a deal that will help them win in 2009, 2010 and 2011) I hope they go for it.

I view it like this - I think 2010 is their BEST CHANCE to win, but I think winning is POSSIBLE any year. I hope they keep that in mind when evaluating potential players this offeason.

Sure, it's possible that the Pirates contend in 2009. It is also possible that MLB cancels the 2009 season entirely. But is it likely?

It makes most sense to build expectations not on what is possible, but on what is probable.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:31 pm 
Willton wrote:
Sure, it's possible that the Pirates contend in 2009. It is also possible that MLB cancels the 2009 season entirely. But is it likely?

It makes most sense to build expectations not on what is possible, but on what is probable.


I believe a professional sports team should do everything it can to win every game of every season.

If you see a free agent who could help you win in 2009 AND 2010 and beyond, and he fits into your budget, why would you not what to sign him?


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
Sure, it's possible that the Pirates contend in 2009. It is also possible that MLB cancels the 2009 season entirely. But is it likely?

It makes most sense to build expectations not on what is possible, but on what is probable.


I believe a professional sports team should do everything it can to win every game of every season.

If you see a free agent who could help you win in 2009 AND 2010 and beyond, and he fits into your budget, why would you not what to sign him?


Elmer,
I don't mean to be a Richard Cranium here but you are assuming that a talented FA is going to want to play here. Winning in MLB is a multilayer process. I would find it hard to believe a quality FA would come to Pittsburgh. The idea of becoming a FA is to gain the most money possible and also to play for a team that has a chance to win the WS. Its the only time a player can determine where he is going to play. Do you think someone would come to Pittsburgh, right now?

So in a sense, you are correct Elmer, we have to play hard to win, every game, because essentially we are playing for the team, the fans, and possible FA's. Winners always get the goods. We have to work on winning first.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?

It's not throwing in the towel. It's being realistic.


The irony of that statement from you just jumped out of the screen.

Shifting gears, so you don't think the the team should try to win next year?

Irony? What was ironic about what I said?

I absolutely think the Pirates should try to win next season, but I don't think they should do so at the expense of their best opportunity to win, and 2009 is not their best opportunity to win. Buying free agent players, a large majority of whom are past their prime, who are only able to contribute now does not make sense for a team who does not have a core group of players currently capable of competing for a playoff spot. It's a waste of money that could be used for more salutory reasons, like locking up young, talented players to long term deals and signing draft picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:43 pm 
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You show me this guy....
Elmer wrote:
...If you see a free agent who could help you win in 2009 AND 2010 and beyond
,

You won't find this...
Quote:
and he fits into your budget, why would you not what to sign him?


If he ...
Quote:
and he fits into your budget, why would you not what to sign him?


You won't have ....
Quote:
...a free agent who could help you win in 2009 AND 2010 and beyond


Its really just arguing a point that can't be realized. That, or come up with some names who fit the bill.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:45 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
Sure, it's possible that the Pirates contend in 2009. It is also possible that MLB cancels the 2009 season entirely. But is it likely?

It makes most sense to build expectations not on what is possible, but on what is probable.


I believe a professional sports team should do everything it can to win every game of every season.

If you see a free agent who could help you win in 2009 AND 2010 and beyond, and he fits into your budget, why would you not what to sign him?

I don't know why one wouldn't. However, I also don't see any free agents that would fit in the Pirates' budget and could help them win in 2009, 2010, and beyond. Do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I still think we may be looking at 2010 or 2011 as winners.


Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?

It's not throwing in the towel. It's being realistic.



LOL......I'm done here. Your hypocrisy is just too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:09 pm 
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LOL......I'm done here. Your hypocrisy is just too much.


Your lunacy far out performs any hint of hypocrisy.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Come on man. You want to throw in the towel on 2009 before 2008 has even ended?

It's not throwing in the towel. It's being realistic.


LOL......I'm done here. Your hypocrisy is just too much.

I'm not sure you even know what hypocrisy means.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Nate a Yankee??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:30 pm 
Willton wrote:
I'm not sure you even know what hypocrisy means.


Again, with personal attacks amid a baseball discussion. How is that OK?


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