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 Post subject: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:15 am 
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Taken from the PPG:

"The team's performance this year, in my opinion, was much different than in recent years but, at the end of the day, we measure success in this game by wins and losses, and our record will again be disappointing to us and to our fans."

Seems to me that the team's performance is remarkably similar to recent years. We again will win only 60 some games. We again enter the offseason with a team that has almost no hope of cracking .500 next year. We again have only the long-term future to hope for.

Different singers, but the same old song and dance.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:48 am 
Ralphie wrote:
Taken from the PPG:

"The team's performance this year, in my opinion, was much different than in recent years but, at the end of the day, we measure success in this game by wins and losses, and our record will again be disappointing to us and to our fans."

Seems to me that the team's performance is remarkably similar to recent years. We again will win only 60 some games. We again enter the offseason with a team that has almost no hope of cracking .500 next year. We again have only the long-term future to hope for.

Different singers, but the same old song and dance.


That doesn't sit well with me, but at least he said that they measure success in wins and losses. Let's hope they do what it takes this offseson to really boost that win column next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:57 am 
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Elmer wrote:
That doesn't sit well with me, but at least he said that they measure success in wins and losses. Let's hope they do what it takes this offseson to really boost that win column next year.


And the question is asked again...And what would that be?

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:10 am 
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
That doesn't sit well with me, but at least he said that they measure success in wins and losses. Let's hope they do what it takes this offseson to really boost that win column next year.


And the question is asked again...And what would that be?


Part of it would be continuing with some of the things they started this year, like the Dominican academy, more money into the minors, drafting the - gasp - best players, etc.

They also need to take it further and increase the major league payroll too. They don't need to be the Yankees, and they shouldn't behave like the Orioles, but they should be above 3rd from the bottom in payroll.

I like a lot of what current management has done. I hope they take it even further now.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:35 am 
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Did Bullish start this thread??

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:17 pm 
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The sentiment of the original post is certainly bullish-like.

I understand what the new regime is doing, I just didn't like the quote. The team sucks as bad as it ever has. Don't try to tell me otherwise.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:32 pm 
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It also refers, quite accurately, to the level of play on the field.

1. the notable increase in plate patience and productive hitting. Even after the trade swoon, the team is now knocking in runs again.
2. the acquisition of arms to actually compete for pitching.
3. the improvement of young players like McClouth and Doumit. The actual use of said players.
4. the release or demotion of players not performing.

All positives on the field, and all differant and improved from before.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:38 pm 
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If the winning percentage has not improved, there has been no improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Next year will be hard to swallow.. but on the other hand very interesting..!

I saw a new look in Bucco baseball as said by zeieimike

Quote:
1. the notable increase in plate patience and productive hitting. Even after the trade swoon, the team is now knocking in runs again.
2. the acquisition of arms to actually compete for pitching.
3. the improvement of young players like McClouth and Doumit. The actual use of said players.
4. the release or demotion of players not performing.


And with the youngsters getting slowly more experienced 2009 will be very interesting to see..
and two years from now:

wow i think ik will be a good offensive line-up, rebuilding with this core.. and often when a team starts to roll
the rest will turn things around too (see Tampa)

Doumit
McLouth
Alvarez
McCutchen

Cheerio

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
If the winning percentage has not improved, there has been no improvement.



Exactly


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:00 pm 
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As one who has been part of, and privy, to several rebuilds in both business and sports endevours... that is crap.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:06 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
As one who has been part of, and privy, to several rebuilds in both business and sports endevours... that is crap.

ZM



Baseball is a bottom line business Mike.

What we in Pittsburgh is a group of people who won't pull the trigger on a full rebuild. They keep half-assing it and we're seeing the results on the field right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:09 pm 
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people are still too quick to judge the trades. very very few players are instant rookie superstars, most players have to develop and work at it and even then they probably wont be superstars, just everyday productive players. Especially when coming from AA or AAA to the MLB level you need to give them time to develop, see some major league pitching, work at their skills. Obviously no one that we have playing at the mlb level now from the trades, is a bonifide right out the gate superstar, but that doesnt mean they cant or wont be able to be productive everyday baseball players. No not everyone will be an everyday productive starter, but give them a chance and everyone else for that matter. short term performance spikes up or down dont mean $#!+

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
That doesn't sit well with me, but at least he said that they measure success in wins and losses. Let's hope they do what it takes this offseson to really boost that win column next year.


And the question is asked again...And what would that be?


Part of it would be continuing with some of the things they started this year, like the Dominican academy, more money into the minors, drafting the - gasp - best players, etc.

They also need to take it further and increase the major league payroll too. They don't need to be the Yankees, and they shouldn't behave like the Orioles, but they should be above 3rd from the bottom in payroll.

I like a lot of what current management has done. I hope they take it even further now.

So who should they sign with this increased payroll?

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:57 pm 
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How about a starting pitcher or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:58 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
How about a starting pitcher or two.

Who, and how much should they offer?

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:01 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
How about a starting pitcher or two.

Who, and how much should they offer?



Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Kyle Lohse (30)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)


There are a couple in there that would be an upgrade over the shit out there now and they'd be within the budget now that Nady and Bay are gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
How about a starting pitcher or two.

Who, and how much should they offer?



Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Kyle Lohse (30)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)


There are a couple in there that would be an upgrade over the shit out there now and they'd be within the budget now that Nady and Bay are gone.

Who, and how much?

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 Post subject: Re: Quote from Coonelly
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:50 am 
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What I think some Pirates fans forget is, even if we try and compete for one of these FA pitchers mentioned above, we probably have to pay more for them to come to Pittsburgh. If its between us and a contendor, the choice is simple.

The Pirates must first build a strong foundation of talent from within, THEN we can go out and recruit the final pieces, whether its a big bat or frontline starter.


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