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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:52 pm 
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Willton wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?

His fate depends on whether the Players Association decides to continue to pursue its grievance.

nad69dan wrote:
I just hope Alavarez doesn't cry and moan when he gets booed the 1st time he makes an error on a routine play or doesn't hustle down to first on a grounder...I sure hope that few extra $$$'s was worth having a whole stadium riding his ass...

Right, because your average Pirate fan has that long of a memory....


The average Pirate fan will remember the $$$ he makes and the hassle with Boras...
The first night he looks at a called 3rd strike or makes a mistake on a routine play, the boo birds will be out in full...

He might be our version of A-Rod...The guy cant do anything right in New York, that might be the same for the first few weeks he's in the majors

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:52 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?


He never questioned the timing of his contract. He'll never testify that it was past midnight. Boras always contended that the deal was done before midnight. Again, the union won't have anyone claiming that any deal was done after midnight. They won't have any evidence to support their grievance. Thus, everything will likely be dropped and everyone will go their merry way. I don't expect, however, that this will be an issue next year. Lessons learned.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:56 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?


He never questioned the timing of his contract. He'll never testify that it was past midnight. Boras always contended that the deal was done before midnight. Again, the union won't have anyone claiming that any deal was done after midnight. They won't have any evidence to support their grievance. Thus, everything will likely be dropped and everyone will go their merry way. I don't expect, however, that this will be an issue next year. Lessons learned.


It'll be a midnight deadline but it will MLB setting their clock ahead a few minutes so everyone can finish quicker and hurry along, kinda like the bars around here set their clocks ahead 15 minutes to get everyone out by 2:30 before 2:30 actually comes...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I'm with you, Argentum. I don't like the major league contract. If that's the way it has to be, I sure hope he's given a chance to make the big league club next year. I hate the idea of the clock ticking on his major league deal while he plays in Altoona.

That isn't the way it works. His clock does not start ticking until he joins the Pirates. A major league contract just means that he has to be put on the 40 man roster right away, and I don't think they'll have any trouble finding room for him on the 40 man.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:02 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
bradf wrote:
My concern is going to come when the Pirates don't call him up as quickly, holding him back a little longer to keep that clock from starting, and how are they going to use all this payroll money they are saving, especially if Jack and/or Freddie goes, which seems likely (at least one of them, anyway).



His clock has started. He's on the 40-man as of signing day. At the end of it all, I think there will be little differance in his monies.

That said, I can't wait to read the "Pirates folded" threads.

ZM

All started by the same folks who complained that the whole problem would have been avoided if they would have offered him more money, no doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:04 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I'm with you, Argentum. I don't like the major league contract. If that's the way it has to be, I sure hope he's given a chance to make the big league club next year. I hate the idea of the clock ticking on his major league deal while he plays in Altoona.


Elmer, his clock doesn't start ticking until he is added to the 25-man. This just means he has to be placed on the 40 man, and if he goes to the minors, he has to use an option. If it were a minor league deal, the Pirates would have a number of years to put him in the minors without using an option. Since players get 3 options, that means even with a big league deal we can keep him in the minors for 3 years without hurting his big league clock. Because Alvarez seems to be close to the majors, the difference between a major league deal and a minor league deal should be minimal.

You only use an option when you send a player down to the minors from the majors. They don't have to use an option to send him to the minors at the start of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:14 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
bradf wrote:
My concern is going to come when the Pirates don't call him up as quickly, holding him back a little longer to keep that clock from starting, and how are they going to use all this payroll money they are saving, especially if Jack and/or Freddie goes, which seems likely (at least one of them, anyway).



His clock has started. He's on the 40-man as of signing day. At the end of it all, I think there will be little differance in his monies.

That said, I can't wait to read the "Pirates folded" threads.

ZM

All started by the same folks who complained that the whole problem would have been avoided if they would have offered him more money, no doubt.


There are many "flip-floppers" out there who will complain that the Pirates "caved", of course those are the guys complaining that the Pirates "messed up." This whole situation stinks to high heaven and at the center of it all is Scott Boras. I can respect an agent trying to get the most amount of money for his client, but to take it to this level is proposterous. If I was KC, I'd be pretty ticked because Boras wasted their time in development of their prospect. How dare they blame it on the Pirates too, EVERYONE knows who is to blame for this mess. Scott "mey ego can't take 2nd place" Boras. Funny how the complaint by Boras, just goes away... what a freakin Joke.

I was all for us playing this thing all the way out till the bitter end. I don't really care if we had PA or not. We only will have him for the 4 years anyway, then him and Scott Boras will make a mint in some other town.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:53 am 
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So, where is BH with his conspiricy theories and bold predictions (or was it hope) that Alvarez would never play for the Pirates?

You can bet that if this had somehow turned out with the Bucs losing Alvarez BH would have immediately started a "told you so" thread and expound on how the whole thing was an elaborate hoax by Nutting to deceive the fans.

By the way BH, they actually did land on the moon.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:24 am 
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Beat 'em Bucs wrote:
So, where is BH with his conspiricy theories and bold predictions (or was it hope) that Alvarez would never play for the Pirates?


You beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:33 pm 
I'm soooo glad this is done. The one thing that didn't sit well with me was his statement that He, rather than Boras, was behind opening up the negotiations again and the appeal and all that jazz. His performance hopefully will erase that memory, but I think some Pittsburgh fans will remember that.

For a bit I was afraid that the Pirates wouldn't have anything higher than a 3rd round pick to show for this draft. Much better draft now that he's in the fold.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:57 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
You only use an option when you send a player down to the minors from the majors. They don't have to use an option to send him to the minors at the start of the year.


As I understand the option rule, a player on the 40-man roster can be brought to the majors only via option without exposing him to other teams through waivers. Therefore, the major league contract essentially requires the team to have the player in the majors before the end of the third (or fourth - see below) season, since a player has only three "option years."

"When a player is added to the 40-man roster, his club has three “options,” or three separate seasons during which the club may to move him to and from the minor leagues without exposing him to other clubs. A player on the 40-man roster playing in the minors is on optional assignment, and within an option season, there is no limit on the number of times a club may demote and recall a player. However, a player optioned to the minor leagues may not be recalled for at least 10 days, unless the club places a Major League player on the disabled list during the 10-day window.

After three options [meaning, option years] are exhausted, the player is out of options. Beginning with the next season, he must clear waivers before he may be sent to the minors again. Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent
."

However, Alvarez would be eligible for a fourth "option year" since he did not play at all this year:

"A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. ... The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."

http://tinyurl.com/4w8pem


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
You only use an option when you send a player down to the minors from the majors. They don't have to use an option to send him to the minors at the start of the year.


As I understand the option rule, a player on the 40-man roster can be brought to the majors only via option without exposing him to other teams through waivers. Therefore, the major league contract essentially requires the team to have the player in the majors before the end of the third (or fourth - see below) season, since a player has only three "option years."

"When a player is added to the 40-man roster, his club has three “options,” or three separate seasons during which the club may to move him to and from the minor leagues without exposing him to other clubs. A player on the 40-man roster playing in the minors is on optional assignment, and within an option season, there is no limit on the number of times a club may demote and recall a player. However, a player optioned to the minor leagues may not be recalled for at least 10 days, unless the club places a Major League player on the disabled list during the 10-day window.

After three options [meaning, option years] are exhausted, the player is out of options. Beginning with the next season, he must clear waivers before he may be sent to the minors again. Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent
."

However, Alvarez would be eligible for a fourth "option year" since he did not play at all this year:

"A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. ... The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."

http://tinyurl.com/4w8pem


You're right. My bad. I shouldn't have messed that one up after all the discussion about sending Burnett down last March.

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